HomeMy WebLinkAbout9/17/1973 (3)MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1973
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF INDIAN RIVER
COUNTY, FLORIDA MET IN WORKSHOP SESSION AT THE COURTHOUSE,
VERO BEACH, FLORIDA ON MONDAY, SEPTEMBER 17, 1973 AT 7:40
.0 CLOCK P.M. PRESENT WERE ALMA LEE Loy, CHAIRMAN, EDWARD J.
MASSEY, VICE CHAIRMAN; W'ILLARD W. SIEBERT, JR.; JACK U.
DRITENBAS; AND RICHARD P. BOGOSIAN. ALSO PRESENT WERE JACK
G.•JENNINGS, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR; PAUL D. BURCH, ATTORNEY
TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS; L. S. THOMAS, DEPUTY
CLERK.
THE CHAIRMAN CALLED THE MEETING TO ORDER STATING
THAT THIS IS A JOINT MEETING BETWEEN THE TOWN COUNCIL OF INDIAN
RIAR SHORES AND INDIAN RIVER COUNTY COMMISSIONERS RELATIVE:TO
SEWER AND WATER SYSTEMS,
PRESENT FROM THE TOWN OFINDIANRIVER SHORES WERE
MAYOR ROLAND MILLER; ALEX MACWILLIAM, CONRAD TUERK; ROBERT
KOHLER; AND TOM LOCKWOOD. ALSO PRESENT WERE GORDON JOHNSTON,
ATTORNEY TO THE TOWN COUNCIL OF INDIAN RIVER SHORES AND IRS.
MORRIS, SECRETARY.
ALSO PRESENT WERE COUNTY CONSULTING ENGINEERS, DR.
DAVID SMITH AND JAMES BEINDORF.
CHAIRMAN Loy STATED THAT -THAT THE PURPOSE OF THIS
MEETING AS THE OUT -GROWTH O H THE ATLANTA, GEORGIA MEETING WITH
W F A A.
THE ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY, (E.P:.A.)_INVOLVING THE
COUNTY, THE CITY OF VERO BEACH AND THE TOWN'OF INDIAN RIVER SHORES,
SHE ASKED ATTORNEY BURCH TO PRESENT THE MEMORANDUM WHICH HE
HAD PREPARED OUTLINING THE VARIOUS OPTIONS,
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MEMORANDUM:
TO: Board of County Commissioners of Indian River County
FROM: Paul 17. Burch, County Attorney
SUBJECT: E. P. A. Meeting, Atlanta, Georgia, September 7, 1973
Commissioner Dritenbas,
This meeting was attended by Chairman Lo ,/Jack Jennings,
Dr. Smith and myself representing the County; the Vero Beach City
Council, Mr. Little the Vero Beach City Manager, Mr. Franken-
burger the City Attorney, Mayor Roland Miller and Gordon Johnston
representing Indian River Shores; Mr. Porche, Mr. White, Mr,
McNeal, Mr. Green, Mr. Mathison, Mr. Collins of E. P.A.; and
Ted MicKleson of the Florida Division of Planning.
After some introductory remarks by Mr. White, Mr. Porche
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took over the meeting and asked each group to state their position
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remarking that it was imperative that the three groups resolve their
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differences. Mayor Fletcher stated that Vero Beach had an "agree-
rment
to agree" (his exact words) with the County on territory and
treatment. That the agreement was binding (I doubt this but the
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population figures upon which the original agreement was based are
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no longer valid and need to be updated. All of the City Council a-
greed that City -County agreement was binding and all agreed it
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would he a better plan if Indian River Shores went with the County.
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Dr. Smith stated the County had completed its plan based
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on the regional concept of E. P. A. and was waiting to see if the City
would honor its agreement with the County. The County does not
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know which way to go until the City makes up its mind.
Mayor Miller stated Indian River Shores was not included
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in the City -County Agreement, was opposed to it, would not do
ini iness with the City, wanted to proceE d with its own plant and
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to<,rk kith the C'c�nnt.y later' when the County got into the water and
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sewer business.
MEMORANDUM to Board of County Commissioners
September 13, 1973
Page 2
Mayor Miller then launched an attack on the City Council
and the next hour or so was consumed with arguments .and .accusa-
tions between Vero Beach and Indian River Shores with the County
sitting on the side lines. Finally E. P. A stepped in and stated
E. P. A. backs the regional concept; it decides what degree of
treatment is needed and what the most cost effective system would
be. These basic decisions had lead to E. P. A. 's approval of the
SES 17 1973
interim plan (Regional concept - one Vero Beach plant.- one
County plant) and the initial approval of Vero Beach's grant.
E. P. A. got all parties to agree that Indian River Shores.
should be in the County's area and not in the City's area. The
City stated it could justify the full amount of its grant without
Indi River Indian R Shores Several neral very pointed questions were asked
E. P. A. by the County and the City:
1. If Indian River Shores is taken out of the City's area
a. Can Vero Beach still get its full grant?
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E. 1', A. Answer: Yes, if it can justify it.
# b. Can Indian River Shoresget a grant?
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E. P. A. Answer: Not likely but if the County and Indian
River Shores present a suitable plan showing the County
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€ eventually taking over the plant, there might be some
i possibility of a small grant.
c. Could Indian River County get a grant
later to expand Indian River Shores plant?
E. }'. A. Answer.: E. P. A. would look at the situation at
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that bine.
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2. Will E. 13. A. force the City to serve suburban areas
in the County if the City gets grant?
_ - E. P. A. Answer: Yes
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a. ,if the City gets the grant and later reneges, would the
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SES 17 1973
MEMORANDUM to Board of County Commissioners
September 13, 1973
Page 3
County be allowed to build a second plant and would it be eligible
for a grant?
E. P. A. Answer: Alot of headshaking and looks of ` .
consternation; comments:such as .the City could nofi
or wouUnot (no satisfactory answer as 'far as f was '
concerned).
The meeting concluded with E. P. A. requesting the. following
things be done:
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1. County. and City revise agreement to delete Indian River
Shores from City area and put it in County area and make. agreement
legally binding. ° i` i,•
2. City submit figures to justify grant without Indian River'
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Shores:
3. County and Indian River Shores prepare and submit an
engineering proposal on what is planned to handle County.and Indian
River Shores sewer and .water. .
MY :COMMENTS:
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Thegreatest long-range Problem is what happens. if •E P.A*
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decides the City gets its grant and must serve County residents a-
round the City and then the City plant runs out of capacity and the
Citywon It expand. It is unknown whether E. P. A. or D. P C mould-, Y
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allow the County to build another plant as this would be in violation
of the regional concept. One fact that has been overlooked in all of
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this3is that D. P A. has told the City that this is the last plant ex-
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pansio' that will be allowed at the present site. To further expand, `
(to tpk care of County residents) future expansion will be somewhere
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elseTo me the most logical way would be for the County to build
one large plant or two smaller plants and plan on eventually handling
all Se4erage in County. Mayor Miller has informed me that F.,H.A.
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told hien it would be possible for us to get another extension on F. H. A's
co4nittment,if we needed it.
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CHAIRMAN L.OY ASKED DR. SMITH IF HE HAD ANYTHING
TO ADD TO THIS AND HE SAID ATTORNEY BURCH SUMMED IT UP VERY NICELY.
THE E.P.A. WISHED THAT THE PLAN COULD PROCEED AS ORIGINALLY PLANNED. -
AS SECOND CHOICE THE BURDEN WOULD BE PUT ON VERO BEACH TO SHOW THAT
IF INDIAN RIVER SHORES WAS REMOVED FROM THE PLAN THAT THEY COULD ADD
THAT MANY CUSTOMERS IN OTHER AREAS, THE THIRD ALTERNATIVE WOULD
BE THAT IND.LAN RIVER SHORES AND THE COUNTY BE PREPARED TO GO
AHEAD WITHOUT GRANT FUNDS - PUT E.P.A. OUT OF THE PICTURE EXCEPT
FOR PERMITS RELATIVE TO SEWAGE -DISCHARGES.
CHAIRMAN L.OY THEN STATED THAT THERE WERE TWO LETTERS
ON FILE FROM THE CITY OF VERO BEACH. THE FIRST LETTER WAS DATED
AUGUST 23RD STATING THAT THEY DID NOT BELIEVE THAT THE CAPACITY
FIGURES WERE CORRECT. THE SECOND LETTER WAS DATED SEPTEMBER 14TH-,
REAFFIRMING THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT,
MAYOR MILLER STATED THAT THEIR POSITION IS SIMPLY:
"WE HAVE NEGOTIATED WITH VERO BEACH FOR THREE YEARS AND NEVER
HAD A PROBLEM BEFORE THE PRESENT COUNCIL WAS ELECTED - YOU
CAN T BELIEVE ANYTHING THE PRESENT CITY COUNCIL SAYS. AT ONE
TIME, COUNCILMAN CAMPBELL SENT WORD! BY CITY ATTORNEY VOCELLE,
THAT HE DID NOT WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE MATTER. THE INDIAN RIVER
SHORES CITY COUNCIL WAS INSULTED AND THEY ALL WALKED OUT OF THE
MEETING. IT HAS COST THE TOWN OF INDIAN RIVER SHORES 1/2 MILLION
DOLLARS FOOLING WITH THE CITY OF VERO BEACH.
WE HAVE OUR OWN RIGHT-OF-WAY AND LAND AND WE ARE
GOING TO APPLY FOR A PERMIT. WE WILL HAVE AN ELECTION IN
ABOUT 60 DAYS TO AUTHORIZE A BOND ISSUE. WE WILL BE WILLING TO TURN
THE PLANT OVER TO THE COUNTY AT ANY TIME,AT BOOK VALUE. IF WE
ARE TURNED DOWN WE WILL GO TO COURT. WE WILL COOPERATE WITH THE
COUNTY TO THE FULLEST BUT WILL NOT MEET WITH VERO BEACH AGAIN."
CHAIRMAN L.OY ASKED HOW THEY PLANNED TO PROCEED,
MAYOR MILLER STATED THAT WE WILL WORK WITH YOUR
ENGINEERS AND COOPERATEIN ANYWAY, BUT NOT WITH THE CITY OF VERO
BEACH. HE STATED THERE ARE NOW 1,000 UNITS IN INDIAN RIVER SHORES
AND 500 UNITS UNDER CONSTRUCTION. THE CITY OF VERO BEACH WANTS
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US TO BUILD A SYSTEM — DEED IT TO THEM, AND THEN THEY WILL
CHARGE US 125% OF THEIR RATE.
CHAIRMAN LOY ASKED IF THERE WERE ANY QUESTIONS
FROM THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONER.
ATTORNEY BURCH STATED THAT THE E.F.A. AGREED THEY
COULDN'T TURN DOWN THE PERMIT IF THERE WAS -NO POLLUTION.
COMMISSIONER BOGOSIAN SAID, "I.F THEY ISSUE
PERMITS TO POLLUTE ON A LARGE SCALE, HOW CAN THEY TURN
DOWN PERMITS ON A SMALL SCALE'"
DR. SMITH STATED THAT IF YOU ARE NOT APPLYING TO E.P.A.
FOR GRANTS YOU CAN BUILD TO STATE SPECIFICATIONS.
MR. BEINDORF ASKED, "DID YOU TALK TO MAYOR FLETCHER
ABOUT THIS LAST LETTER — DOES THIS INCLUDE WATER AS WELL AS
WASTE WATER."
CHAIRMAN LOY THEN ASKED THE PRESS IF THEY WERE
PRESENT WHEN THIS WAS DISCUSSED IN VERO BEACH, NEWSCASTER PETE
NOELISA,ID "THERE WAS NO DISCUSSION OF WATER."
MAYOR MILLER STATED THAT THEY ALREADY HAVE A 16"
MAIN ACROSS THE RIVER AT WABASSO.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT STATED THAT HE TALKED TO ONE
MEMBER OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND HE SAID THEY WOULD LIVE BY THE
WHOLE AGREEMENT.
COMMISSIONER MASSEY SAID THAT ALL VERO BEACH WANTS
IS THE GRANT MONEY.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT STATED THAT VERO BEACH INTENTED
`s TO REAFFIRM THE ENTIRE AGREEMENT.
MAYOR MILLER STATED, "WE DID NOT SIGN IT." AND ASKED
<£ MR. BEINDORF, "WHAT ASSURANCE HE HAD THAT VERO BEACH WOULDN'T
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CHANGE THEIR MIND AGAIN NEXT WEEK."
MR. KOHLER STATED THAT APPARENTLY THEY CAME FROM
TLANTA WITH A DIFFERENT INTERPRETATION OF THE ATLANTA MEETING.
=v COMMISSIONER DRITENBAS STATED THAT THE E.P.A. GRANT
+S RELATED TO THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE SERVED RATHER THAN THE AREA
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SERVED. THE GRANT COULD BE REDUCED,
COMMISSIONER BOGOSIAN STATED THAT HE DID NOT KNOW
WHAT THEY SAID IN ATLANTA, BUT IT LOOKED LIKE THE MONKEY IS BACK
OiN OUR BACK.
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NEWSCASTER, ED TRENT STATED THAT AT THE LAST MEETING
IN VERO BEACH, THAT COUNCILMAN CAMPBELL SAID, "LETS ALL GET
TOGETHER SO THAT WE CAN GET THE GRANT MONEY - AND THEN WE
CAN MAKE NEW AGREEMENTS."
MR. KOHLER STATED THAT INDIAN RIVER SHORES TOWN
COUNCIL WAS NOT TRYING TO PUT THE MONKEY ON THE
COUNTY'S BACK, BUT TO GIVE OUR PEOPLE SEWERS AND TO WORK WITH
THE COUNTY BECAUSE WE CAN NOT WORK WITH THE CITY OF VERO BEACH.
WE WANT TO WORK TOWARDS THE FIRST PHASE OF.A COUNTY -WIDE
SYSTEM.
COMMISSIONER BOGOSIAN ASKED, "ARE YOU SATISFIED
YOU HAVE TO BUILD NOW?"
MR. KOHLER.ANSWERED, "YES, BECAUSE YOUR SYSTEM IS
STILL SEVERAL YEARS AWAY."
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT SAID, "I THINK INDIAN RIVER
SHORES HAS DONE EVERYTHING THEY CAN AND WE IN TURN SHOULD DO
EVERYTHING WE CAN SO INDIAN RIVER SHORES CAN PROVIDE THIS
SERVICE."
COMMISSIONER MASSEY, ASKED,"IF INDIAN RIVER SHORES
PUTS IN A SEWER SYSTEM AND THEN SEBASTIAN PUTS IN A PLANT,.WHY
SHOULD THE COUNTY GET INTO THE BUSINESS AT ALL.
JACK STINSON, (AN INTERESTED CITIZEN) ASKED, "HOW
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DOES SEBASTIAN STAND."
t MR. BEINDORF REPLIED, "WE DID NOT PLAN ANY SYSTEM IN
SEBASTIAN, BUT WOULD LET THEM TIE ONTO THE COUNTY SYSTEM".
µ CHAIRMAN Loy STATED IT APPEARS INCUMBENT TO ASK THE
CITY OF VERO BEACH TO CHANGE THE SERVICE AREAS.
MAYOR MILLER STATED, "ALL WE WANT IS OUT, WE DO NOT
=`_ VANT ANY PART OF VERO BEACH."
MR. MACWILLIAM ALSO STATED, "WE DO NOT WANT
ANY PART OF VERO BEACH."
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MR. BEINDORF SAID, "WE ARE 28 DAYS AWAY FROM A DEAD
LINE AND WE STILL DO NOT KNOW HOW TO PROCEED."
MAYOR MILLER ASKED THE COMMISSIONERS TO ASK THEIR
- NGINEERS IF THEIR SYSTEM WAS COMPATIBLE WITH INDIAN RIVER SHORE'S
SYSTEM.
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SEP 17,'973 now
DR. SMITH STATED THAT IF IT IS NOT COMPATIBLE, WE CAN
WORK WITH IT SO THAT IT WILL BE COMPATIBLE.
MR. TUERK STATED THAT THE PREDICTION IS THAT IN 10 YEARS
THERE WILL BE 10 TO IS THOUSAND PEOPLE IN THE TOWN OF INDIAN
RIVER SHORES.
CHAIRMAN LOY ASKED, "WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO EXPAND
YOUR PLANT TO SERVE OUTSIDE OF YOUR OWN AREA?."
Y MAYOR MILLER ANSWERED, "YES, PERHAPS ALL THE WAY TO
SEBASTIAN.'
DR. SMITH STATED THAT IN ORDER TO MODIFY THE PLAN':-
WE
LAN-WE AGAIN RUN INTO A TIME ELEMENT. THERE IS NO WAY THE PLAN
CAN BE MODIFIED AND APPROVED IN THE SHORT TIME AVAILABLE.
MAYOR MILLER STATED HE WOULD LIKE TO GET THE LETTER
THEY WROTE TO VERO BEACH RETURNED TOIHEM,
CHAIRMAN Loy SUGGESTED THAT THEY WRITE VERO BEACH AND
ASKED FOR THE LETTER,
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT STATED THAT HE FEELS WE SHOULD
NOT PUT THE COUNTY AT THE MERCY OF VERO BEACH,
COMMISSIONER BOGOSIAN STATED THAT HE AGREES - AND
THOUGHT THE ORIGINAL AGREEMENT WAS OKAY,
ATTORNEY BURCH THEN STATED THAT HE THOUGHT THEY-SHOULD
AFFIRM THE LETTER DATED SEPTEMBER 14, 1973 FROM VERO BEACH AND
MAKE IT A FIRM AND LEGAL AGREEMENT AS REQUESTED BY E.F.A. THE
CAPACITY QUESTION SHOULD ALSO BE AFFIRMED. THEN HE THOUGHT THEY
SHOULD WORK OUT AN AGREEMENT WITH THE TOWN OF INDIAN RIVER SHORES
TO GET GOING.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT AGREED WITH ATTORNEY BURCH.
COMMISSIONER�MASSEY STATED, "WEREN'T THEY SERIOUS
/BOUT THE FIRST AGREEMENT YOU CAN T TRUST ANYONEI"
t COMMISSIONER BOGOSIAN STATED, "I DO NOT THINK THE
CONTRACT MEANS A THING, I WORRY ABOUT THE ACTUAL PLANT CAPACITY."
DR. SMITH ANSWERED, "YES - AND I THINK YOU HAVE."
MAYOR FILLER STATED, "IT IS THE WILL OF OUR TAXPAYERS
TO GO AHEAD. YOU WORK WITH US OR WE TRY TO GO IT ALONE."
COMMISSIONER DRITENBAS STATED, "DIDN'T WE MEET TO
DECIDE IF WE ARE GOING ALONG WITH INDIAN RIVER SHORES."
CHAIRMAN Loy STATED, "YOU WANT TO BE SURE THAT YOUR
PLANT IS COMPATRBLE WITH ANY FUTURE COUNTY OPERATION."
ATTORNEY BURCH STATED THAT IT WILL BE EASIER FOR THE
TOWN OF INDIAN RIVER SHORES TO GET STATE APPROVAL,ETC;r.-. WITH
COUNTY ENDORSEMENT.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT STATED THAT WE CAN LET YOU GO
JUST BY SAYING, WE ARE GOING TO COOPERATE WITH YOU':,--,
ATTORNEY BURCH STATED WE COULD SIGN AN AGREEMENT WITH
INDIAN RIVER SHORES AND THAT IT WOULD BE AVERY SIMPLE MATTER,
MAYOR MILLER SAID THAT THE PROBLEM WITH THE VERO BEACH
CITY COUNCIL IS THAT THEY ARE BUSY RUNNING FOR OFFICE.
CHAIRMAN Loy STATED THAT THE LAST LETTER FROM VERO BEACH
IS CONTRARY TO THE MEETING IN ATLANTA.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT STATED THAT HE DID NOT CARE IF WE
GET THE BLAME FROM VERO BEACH, HE THOUGHT WE SHOULD GIVE THESE
PEOPLE OUR SUPPORT,
COMMISSIONER BOGOSIAN ASKED ABOUT THE PURCHASE OF AN
INDIAN RIVER SHORES FACILITY AT BOOK VALUE AND MAYOR MILLER
=SAID THAT PERHAPS YOU CAN PAY OFF OUR BONDS,
MR. THOMAS STATED THAT HE DID NOT THINK THAT THE COUNTY
COULD.PAY OFF THE BONDS, BUT THAT THERE SHOULD BE SOMEWAY TO
ASSUME THE OBLIGATION.
THE WORKSHOP MEETING THEN ADJOURNED AT 9:30 O'CLOCK
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