HomeMy WebLinkAbout9/27/1977s
TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 1977
THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF INDIAN RIVER COUNTY,
FLORIDA, MET IN SPECIAL SESSION AT THE COURTHOUSE, VERO BEACH,
FLORIDA, ON TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 27, 1977, AT 3:00 O'CLOCK P.M. PRESENT
WERE WILLIAM C. WODTKE, .JR., CHAIRMAN; ALMA LEE Loy, VICE CHAIRMAN;
WILLARD W. SIEBERT, JR.; EDWIN S. SCHMUCKER; AND R. DON DEESON. ALSO
PRESENT WERE .JACK G. .JENNINGS, COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR; GEORGE G. COLLINS,
JR., ATTORNEY TO THE BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS; AND VIRGINIA
HARGREAVES, DEPUTY CLERK.
PRESENT REPRESENTING MID -FLORIDA UTILITIES, INC., WERE B.
KENNETH GATLIN, ATTORNEY; CARROLL WRIGHT, VICE PRESIDENT AND GENERAL
MANAGER OF THE SOUTHEAST REGION OF GENERAL WATERWORKS, INC.; DAVID
COFFEY, ACCOUNTANT; AND IRA MCALLISTER, LOCAL MANAGER FOR MID -FLORIDA.
THE CHAIRMAN CALLED THE MEETING TO ORDER AND ANNOUNCED THAT
THIS IS A SPECIAL MEETING CALLED TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING IN
REGARD TO A RATE INCREASE FOR MID -FLORIDA UTILITIES, INC., WHICH WAS
RECESSED AT THE MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 14, 1977.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE ASKED THE APPLICANT TO RESPOND TO SOME OF
THE QUESTIONS ASKED BY THE BOARD AT THE EARLIER MEETING AND TO SUPPLY
THE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION REQUESTED.
ATTORNEY GATLIN INTRODUCED .JOHN LANG, ASSISTANT REGIONAL
MANAGER FOR GENERAL WATERWORKS, AND PRESENTED AS EXHIBIT 13 A
PRO -FORMA STATEMENT OF INCOME FOR MID -FLORIDA UTILITIES, INC.
EXHIBIT 13 WAS ACCEPTED AND IS ON FILE IN THE OFFICE OF THE CLERK.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED MR. LANG IF HE IS FAMILIAR WITH EX-
HIBIT 2, ACCOUNTING DATA PRESENTED BY MR. COFFEY, AND IF IT WAS PRE-
PARED BY MR. COFFEY UNDER MR. LANG'S DIRECTION. MR, LANG ANSWERED
THAT HE WAS FAMILIAR WITH IT, AND IT WAS PREPARED UNDER HIS DIRECTION.
ATTORNEY GATLIN NOTED THAT THE BOARD HAD A QUESTION ABOUT
THE RETAINED EARNINGS FIGURE IN EXHIBIT B OF THE ACCOUNTING DATA AS
COMPARED TO THE FIGURE IN EXHIBIT H AND ASKED WHAT IS THE CORRECT
ANSWER.
MR. LANG ANSWERED THAT MOST OF THAT INFORMATION WAS GATHERED
TOGETHER FOR MR. COFFEY, AND THE FIGURES GIVEN HIM HAD SOME ERRORS,
HE STATED THAT THE CORRECT FIGURE FOR RETAINED EARNINGS AS OF 12/31/76
IS THE ONE DISPLAYED ON EXHIBIT B OR $101,160, MR, LANG CONTINUED
EP .2 71977
ti
THAT THE RETAINED EARNINGS FIGURE PRESENTED AT THE PREVIOUS RATE
HEARING WAS $124,000, AND THIS HAS DECLINED DUE TO THE LOSSES THAT
HAVE OCCURRED IN THE LAST FOUR YEARS.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED IF THE CORRECTION IN THE RETAINED
EARNINGS FIGURE NECESSITATED MAKING CORRECTIONS IN OTHER EXHIBITS.
MR. LANG STATED THAT IT DID, AND THE REVISED EXHIBITS ARE
INCLUDED IN EXHIBIT 13. ALSO ATTACHED TO -THIS EXHIBIT IS INTERROGA-
TORY 2 WHICH SETS OUT A BREAKDOWN OF GENERAL AND ADMINISTRATIVE EX-
PENSES FOR MID -FLORIDA FOR 1976. MR. LANG EXPLAINED THAT IN REGARD
TO AN ANALYSIS OF HOW INTEREST EXPENSE WAS CALCULATED, THIS IS SET
OUT ON REVISED EXHIBIT H AND IS BASED BACK TO THE PARENT COMPANY.
AS TO THE RATE BASIS OF THE FACILITIES IN INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, MR.
LANG NOTED THAT ON EXHIBIT B AS of 12/31/76, THE WATER PLANT IS SET
FORTH AS $516,533, WHICH IS THE ORIGINAL'COST PLUS THE ADDITIONS
THROUGH THE YEARS SINCE IT WAS ACQUIRED. HE FURTHER NOTED THAT THE
STATE REQUIRES A COST STUDY BE DONE TO DETERMINE THE ORIGINAL COST.
THE BOARD THEN DISCUSSED THE BREAKDOWN OF ADMINISTRATIVE
COSTS CHARGED AGAINST MID -FLORIDA AS SET OUT IN INTERROGATORY 2 OF
EXHIBIT 13, AND COMMISSIONER LOY ASKED WHAT "OUTSIDE SERVICES" MEAN.
MR. LANG EXPLAINED THAT THERE ARE OUTSIDE SERVICES TO MID -
FLORIDA SUCH AS FROM THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY IN ORLANDO, AND ACCOUNT-
ING SERVICES, LEGAL, ENGINEERING, ECT., AND THESE.ALL FALL UNDER THE
GENERIC TERM "OUTSIDE SERVICES."
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT DISCUSSED THE ADMINISTRATIVE `& GENERAL
EXPENSE SHOWN ON REVISED EXHIBIT E ($16,975) AND ASKED IF THIS HAS
i
TO DO WITH THE COST OF THE RATE CASE PREPARATION.
MR. LANG STATED THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL THINGS THAT GO INTO
THAT FIGURE, BUT THE LARGEST ITEM IS Ro.7 OF EXHIBIT F, REGULATORY
COMMISSION EXPENSE, $14.375.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT NOTED THAT THE $14,375 IS AMORTIZED
OVER TWO YEARS AND ASKED IF THE PRO FORMA STATEMENT WAS EXTENDED
BEYOND JUST THE NEXT YEAR, WOULD NOT THAT HAVE A SIGNIFICANT AFFECT.
MR. LANG AGREED THAT THE AMORTIZED AMOUNT WOULD DECLINE
IN THE THIRD YEAR. HE EXPLAINED THAT DUE TO INFLATIONARY IMPACTS, ;
THEY FIND THEMSELVES COMING BACK ON AN AVERAGE OF EVERY TWO TO TWO
4
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SEP 271977 Af-
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AND A HALF YEARS TO REQUEST ADDITIONAL INCREASES AND THUS STARTED THE
PRACTICE OF AMORTIZING THESE COSTS,
COMMISSIONER LOY ASKED HOW MANY OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE
TESTIFIED IN FRONT OF THE BOARD FOR MID -FLORIDA ARE NOT DIRECTLY EM-
PLOYED BY GENERAL WATERWORKS.
ATTORNEY GATLIN STATED THAT MR. MULLE IS THE ONLY ONE NOT
DIRECTLY EMPLOYED BY GENERAL WATERWORKS
COMMISSIONER Loy QUESTIONED HOW, IN THAT CASE, IT CAN STILL
COST THEM $28,00O TO HAVE THESE PEOPLE COME IN TO ASK FOR A RATE IN-
CREASE.
MR. LANG STATED THAT THE $28,000 CONSISTS OF A NUMBER OF
THINGS: ATTORNEY S FEES - TIME OF THE PEOPLE - TRANSPORTATION - ETC.,
AS WELL AS PAYING FOR THE OUTSIDE CONSULTANT.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT ASKED ABOUT THE SALARIES THESE PEOPLE
ARE RECEIVING, AND MR. LANG EXPLAINED THAT THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE MID -
FLORIDA ARE ON 'OUTSIDE SERVICES MANAGEMENT CHARGES" PLUS REGULATORY
COMMISSION EXPENSES.
DISCUSSION CONTINUED IN REGARD TO THE "OUTSIDE SERVICES"
AND THE LOCAL COSTS.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED MR. LANG IF IT IS NOT TRUE THAT IF
THE OPERATION IN INDIAN RIVER COUNTY DID NOT HAVE THE BENEFIT OF AND
ACCESS TO THESE OUTSIDE SERVICES AND MANAGEMENT CHARGES, IT WOULD.
HAVE TO REPLACE THEM BY OTHER COSTS AND CHARGES, AS THESE ARE NOT.
SERVICES THE COMPANY COULD DO WITHOUT.
MR. LANG STATED THAT IS DEFINITELY SO. HE CONTINUED THAT
GENERAL WATERWORKS HAS 6O DIFFERENT COMPANIES STRETCHING THROUGHOUT
THE UNITED STATES AND CAN PROVIDE ALL THE NECESSARY MANAGEMENT SER-.:
VICES FOR EACH OF THEM TO OPERATE EFFICIENTLY - TAX SERVICES,
ENGINEERING SERVICES, PURCHASING SERVICES, ETC. HE NOTED THAT IN
REGARD TO PURCHASING, THE LOCAL COMPANY HAS THE BENEFIT OF GETTING
NATIONAL CONTRACT PRICES FOR MANY THINGS. MR. LANG STATED THAT
GENERAL WATERWORKS PUT TOGETHER THE CONCEPT TO PROVIDE THESE SERVICES
IN 1943, AND THE SERVICES ARE PROVIDED BY EXPERTS EITHER FROM
PHILADELPHIA OR MIAMI. HE INFORMED THE BOARD THAT THE RESULT IS THAT
EACH COMPANY WITHIN GENERAL WATERWORKS, INCLUDING MID -FLORIDA, WILL
HAVE THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE THE LOWEST COST SERVICES TO THEIR CUS-
TOMERS, BUT STILL HAVE A HIGH LEVEL OF SERVICE.
3
SES' 2 7 197 �orK 1 p4 -v
CHAIRMAN WODTKE ASKED HOW MANY RATE CASES THEY ARE INVOLVED
IN, AND MR. LANG SAID IT VARIED IN DIFFERENT YEARS AND RANGED ANYWHERE
FROM 25 TO 40. HE STATED THAT THE LARGE PERCENTAGE OF THE COMPANIES
IN GENERAL WATERWORKS ARE SIMILAR TO MID -FLORIDA IN SIZE.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE NOTED THAT THE COST OF THESE RATE CASES
COULD AVERAGE AROUND $800,000 A YEAR, AND MR. LANG AGREED THAT WOULD
NOT BE AN UNREASONABLE FIGURE.
THE CHAIRMAN ASKED HOW MANY NEW METERS HAVE BEEN INSTALLED
IN THE COUNTY LATELY, NOTING THAT MR, LANG HAD SAID THEY COULD BE
OBTAINED AT A REDUCED COST.
MR. LANG STATED HE BELIEVED THEY REPLACE ABOUT 107 TO 20%
OF THE METERS. HE CONTINUED THAT THEY ALSO HAVE FAVORABLE CONTRACTS
ON CHLORINE, PIPES, ETC,- THE ENTIRE BROAD RANGE OF MATERIALS RE-
QUIRED BY ANY OPERATING UTILITY.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT ASKED ABOUT THE- FIGURES SHOWN ON EXHIBIT B
AS CONTRIBUTIONS IN AID OF CONSTRUCTION - $91,086 FOR 1975 AND $98,348
FOR 1976,
MR. LANG EXPLAINED THAT IN THE UTILITY INDUSTRY THERE ARE
CERTAIN ASSETS GIVEN TO PROVIDE SERVICES, USUSALLY GIVEN BY DEVELOP-
ERS SO THE DEVELOPER CAN EXTEND INTO NEW AREAS OR, SOME YEARS AGO,
THEY WOULD PROVIDE THE DOLLARS TO BUILD If BACKBONE If PLANTS. MR. LANG
STATED THAT GENERAL WATERWORKS IS NOT PERMITTED TO EARN ANY KIND OF A
RETURN ON THESE ASSETS, AND THEY ARE DEDUCTED WHEN FIGURING THE RATE
COST.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT ASKED IF HE UNDERSTOOD CORRECTLY ON
REVISED EXHIBIT E THAT PRODUCTION,. TRANSMISSION & DISTRIBUTION EX-
PENSES WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY $51,000 AND ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS, IN-
CLUDING CUSTOMER ACCOUNTING WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY $61,000.
MR. LANG STATED THAT WAS CORRECT.
ATTORNEY GATLIN CALLED CHARLES FOX, AND ATTORNEY COLLINS
SWORE HIM IN.
CHARLES FOX GAVE HIS ADDRESS AS 9403 NW 13TH ST., MIAMI,
AND STATED THAT HE IS A CONSULTING ENGINEER IN PRIVATE PRACTICE AND
NOT AN EMPLOYEE OF GENERAL WATERWORKS OR MID FLORIDA, EXCEPT AS A
CONSULTANT. HE GAVE HIS QUALIFICATIONS STATING THAT HE HAS PRACTICED
ENGINEERING WITHIN THE FIELD OF WATER AND SEWER UTILITIES IN EXCESS
OF 18 YEARS AND HAS GIVEN EXPERT TESTIMONY BEFORE THE STATE OF FLORIDA,
4
SEP 2 71 77 lkoox 31 PAGE 157
MISSISSIPPI AND GEORGIA ON MANY OCCASIONS,
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED IF HE IS FAMILIAR WITH THE MID -FLORIDA
PLANT AND DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.
MR. FOX STATED HE HAS BEEN FAMILIAR WITH IT SINCE ABOUT SIX
YEARS AGO AND MORE RECENTLY IN THE PAST TWO DAYS WHEN HE WAS INVITED
BY MID -FLORIDA TO INVESTIGATE CONDITIONS AT THE SITE AND CHECK THE
PLANT IN GENERAL. HE INFORMED THE BOARD THAT HE HAS CHECKED INTO
BOTH THE PLANT AND THE WATER ANALYSES AND HAS SEEN A GREAT NUMBER OF
THE BACTERIOLOGICAL REPORTS DONE FOR THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT SINCE EARLY.
1976 UP TO THE CURRENT PERIOD, AND THEY WERE SATISFACTORY,
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED IF THERE IS ANY SKILL REQUIRED IN THE
PROPER TAKING OF SAMPLES OF WATER FOR TESTING PURPOSES,
MR. Fox STATED THAT TRAINING IS NECESSARY FOR THE PROPER
TAKING OF SUCH SAMPLES. HE EXPLAINED THE PROCEDURE IN DETAIL, NOTING
THAT STERILIZATION AND CAREFUL HANDLING IS EXTREMELY IMPORTANT SO
THAT CONTAMINATION OF THE SAMPLE DOES NOT TAKE PLACE. HE CONTINUED
THAT IT IS VERY EASY TO CONTAMINATE THE WATER UNKNOWINGLY, AND THUS
HE WOULD NOT BE SURPRISED IF A CUSTOMER TAKING A TEST SAMPLE COULD
GET A BAD REPORT.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED MR. FOX TO DESCRIBE THE RAW WATER
COMING FROM THE WELLS AND THE PROCESS IT GOES THROUGH,
MR. FOX INFORMED THE BOARD THAT HE HAS INVESTIAGTED TWO
SETS OF CHEMICAL ANALYSES - ONE SET TAKEN IN NOVEMBER OF 1975 AND THE
OTHER SET TAKEN IN MARCH OF 1977, APPROXIMATELY 16 MONTHS APART. HE
STATED THAT THERE WAS A DISTINCT DIFFERENCE IN THEIR CHARACTERISTICS.
IN THE SECOND SET THE DISSOLVED SOLIDS HAD INCREASED, THE COLOR OF THE
RAW WATER HAD INCREASED IN LEVEL, AND THE IRON CONTENT HAD DECREASED.
HE NOTED THAT THIS WATER IS A HARD WATER RATHER THAN A SOFT WATER,
• AND FROM THE RESEARCH HE HAS DONE, HE FEELS THIS IS A TYPICAL CONDITION
OF THIS AREA.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED WHAT KIND OF PLANT.WOULD__HAVE.TO BE
1
CONSTRUCTED TO CURE THE WATER PROBLEMS, ,
MR, FOX STATED THAT THE PRESENT TREATMENT EQUIPMENT AT THE
PLANT SITE SOLVES THE PROBLEM OF HARDNESS, BUT THE TOTAL DISSOLVED
SOLIDS ARE NOT CHANGING AND IN ORDER TO MEET THE CURRENT STANDARDS,
A DIFFERENT TYPE TREATMENT EQUIPMENT IS NEEDED, MR, FOX FELT THE
MOST APPROPRIATE WOULD BE A 'LIME -SODA ASH SEDIMENTATION FLOCULATION
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1977d�i3GK e�� F'-�urC�
UNIT" WHICH TAKES THE FINE PARTICLES AND GETS THEM INTO A STATE WHERE
THEY CAN BE FILTERED OUT. HE ESTIMATED THAT SUCH EQUIPMENT WOULD COST
IN THE RANGE OF $375,000, BUT INFORMED THE BOARD THAT HE DID NOT FEEL
IT WOULD BE PRUDENT TO MAKE SUCH AN INVESTMENT FOR THIS SYSTEM AS THIS
MONEY WOULD BE SPENT TO UPGRADE WATER ON WHICH THE SOURCE OF SUPPLY
IS VERY UNRELIABLE.
MR, FOX CONTINUED THAT THE PLANT SITE CANNOT ACCOMMODATE
ANY MORE WELLS DUE TO THEIR PROXIMITY, WHICH WOULD CREATE A "DRAW-
DOWN." HE REITERATED THAT THE IMPORTANT POINT IS THAT THE CONDITION
OF THE ACQUIFER ITSELF IS TOO UNRELIABLE TO WARRANT THIS TYPE OF CAPI-
TAL EXPENDITURE. HE FURTHER POINTED OUT THAT THE TYPE OF PLANT HE
QUOTED ON IS FOR THE EXISTING CAPACITY, AND THERE IS NO POTENTIAL
GROWTH AS THE PLANT -CANNOT ACCOMMODATE -IT.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED IF REPLACEMENT OF PIPE IN THE DISTRI-
BUTION SYSTEM WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEMS, AND MR, FOX STATED THAT, IN
HIS OPINION, IT WOULD NOT,
CHAIRMEN WODTKE ASKED MR.FOX TO CONFIRM THAT HE IS NOT AN
EMPLOYEE OF GENERAL WATERWORKS, BUT'EMPLOYED BY THEM AS A CONSULTANT
WITH A CONTRACT TO REPRESENT THEM.
MR. FOX STATED THAT HE WAS REQUESTED TO INVESTIGATE THIS
SITUATION, AND IS BEING PAID FOR DOING SO. HE CONTINUED THAT HE HAS
BEEN AT THE PLANT BUT HAS NOT PERSONALLY MADE ANY TESTS OF THE WATER.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE ASKED MR. FOX IF HE ASSUMED THE TESTS HE
SAW WERE DONE CORRECTLY AND FEELS THIS WATER IS TYPICAL OF THE COUNTY,
MR. FOX ANSWERED THAT HE FEELS THE TESTS WERE DONE CORRECTLY
AS THEY WERE DONE BY INDEPENDENT LABORATORIES, AND FROM PEOPLE HE HAS
SPOKEN TO .AND THINGS HE HAS READ ABOUT WATER CONDITIONS OF THE STATE
OF FLORIDA AND THIS PARTICULAR PART OF THE EASTERN SEABOARD, BELIEVES
THE WATER CONDITION IS REASONABLY CONSISTANT WITH THE WATER IN THIS
AREA.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE HANDED TO MR. FOX WATER TESTS THAT HAVE BEEN
RUN ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTY, HE INFORMED MR, FOX THAT THESE TESTS
WERE RUN ON SAMPLES THAT WERE TAKEN AT THE CUSTOMER LEVEL AND ASKED
IF MR. FOX FELT THESE FIGURES WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE.
MR. FOX READ OVER THE TESTS AND AGREED THAT THERE IS NO
QUESTION THAT THERE ARE THINGS THAT EXCEED THE STANDARDS. HE NOTED
THAT THEIR ANALYSES ALSO INDICATE THIS AND SAID HE THOUGHT HE HAD MADE
4. 6
71977 MOK 31 PA. -it- 159
IT CLEAR THAT THE EXISTING EQUIPMENT IS FIXING THE SOFTNESS, BUT IS
NOT DOING THE TOTAL JOB TO MEET THE STANDARDS REQUIRED. HE STATED
THAT THE PLANT HAS VERY LITTLE IMPACT ON THE IRON CONTENT, AND IT
VARIES BECAUSE THE RAW WATER VARIES.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE ASKED IF MR. FOX FELT THAT THE DISTRIBU-
TION
ISTRIBUTION SYSTEM HAS ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE IRON CONTENT OF THE WATER IN
THE CUSTOMERS HOMES.
MR. FOX STATED THAT HE DID NOT FEEL THAT IT DID.
COMMISSIONER SCHMUCKER DISCUSSED THE CHEMICAL ANALYSES MADE
ON THE WELLS IN 1975 AND 1977 WHICH INDICATED THAT THE IRON CONTENT
WENT DOWN AT THE WELLS ALTHOUGH THE IRON CONTENT IS HIGH AT THE HOUSES,
AND MR. FOX STATED THAT, IN HIS OPINION, THE COLOR IS BEING CAUSED BY
A VEGETABLE DYE GETTING INTO THE WATER, WHICH IS COLLOIDAL AND CAN-
NOT BE REMOVED,
MR, FOX NOTED THAT THE SYSTEM HAS SOME GALVANIZED PIPE, BUT
AT THE PLANT THEY ARE ADDING A POLYPHOSPHATE WHICH COATS THE INTERIOR
OF THESE PIPES. HE CONTINUED THAT HE WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED WHEN
SHOWN A PIECE OF Z" PIPE TODAY WHICH WAS REMOVED AT RANDOM FROM THE
DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM; THE OUTSIDE OF THE PIPE WAS BAD, BUT THE INSIDE
OF THE PIPE WAS COATED WITH THE POLYPHOSPHATE AND IN PRETTY GOOD CON-
DITION. HE NOTED THAT WHILE YOU GET SOME DISCOLORATION FROM THE GAL-
VANIZED PIPE, HE DID -NOT FEEL YOU WILL GET A SIGNIFICANT IRON CONTENT
FROM IT.
COMMISSIONER SCHMUCKER POINTED OUT THAT THE REAL PROBLEM
IS THAT THE COMPANY IS ASKING FOR AN INCREASE IN THEIR RATES, BUT THEY
ARE NOT FURNISHING A SATISFACTORY PRODUCT.- THE CUSTOMERS ARE NOT
SATISFIED WITH WHAT THEY ARE GETTING.
MR, FOX REMARKED THAT HE HAS BEEN ASKED TO TESTIFY ON EXIST-
ING CONDITIONS, AND HE HAS TOLD IT LIKE IT IS; THAT WITH THE EXISTING
WATER AND THE EXISTING EQUIPMENT, THEY CANNOT MEET THE EXISTING
STANDARDS.
COMMISSIONER SCHMUCKER NOTED THAT THS IRON CONTENT IS HIGH
IN ROCKRIDGE, BUT THE IRON CONTENT IS REDUCING AT THE WELL SO HE FEELS
THERE IS SOME OTHER PROBLEM.
MR. FOX SAID IF THIS WERE TRUE ONLY IN THE ROCKRIDGE AREA
WHERE THERE IS GALVANIZED PIPE, HE WOULD FEEL IT IS INDICATIVE, BUT
IT IS NOT,
7
SEP 2 71977 aUGK 31 PACE 160
CHAIRMAN WODKTE NOTED THAT FOR THE LAST FEW YEARS THE COMPANY
HAS BEEN TELLING US THE PROBLEM WAS DUE TO THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM,
AND COMMISSIONER SIEBERT AGREED AND POINTED OUT THAT JUST RECENTLY WE
WERE TOLD THAT THE RAW WATER COULD BE HELD UP AGAINST ANY IN THE COUNTY..
ADMINISTRATOR JENNINGS ASKED MR. FOX WHAT, IN HIS OPINION,
WOULD BE THE EFFECT IF YOU HAD A GALVANIZED DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM IN
WHICH SECTIONS OF BLACK IRON PIPE WERE INTERMEDIATELY PLACED,
MR. FOX STATED THAT THE SOIL CONDITIONS IN WHICH THE PIPE
IS LAID WOULD HAVE A LOT TO DO WITH IT,'. AND HE IS NOT FAMILIAR ENOUGH
WITH SOIL AND GROUND: WATER CONDITIONS UP HERE TO KNOW. HE DID FEEL
SUCH A SITUATION WOULD CAUSE A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF GALVANIC ACTION, AND
THERE WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE DETRIMENTAL AFFECTS.
ATTORNEY COLLINS ASKED MR. FOX WHETHER HE ACTUALLY SAW THE
PIPE HE REFERRED TO REMOVED FROM THE GROUND, AND HE STATED THAT HE
HAD NOT,
CHAIRMAN WODTKE STATED THAT HE WISHED TO ENTER THE WATER
TESTS PREVIOUSLY REFERRED TO, WHICH WERE DONE ON BEHALF OF THE COUNTY,
AS EXHIBITS.
ATTORNEY GATLIN WISHED TO KNOW WHO DID THESE TESTS AND TO
HAVE THEM IDENTIFIED.
ADMINISTRATOR JENNINGS STATED THAT JAMES BEINDORF, CON-
SULTING ENGINEER FOR THE COUNTY, TOOK ONE OF THE TESTS, AND WILSON
ETHERINGTON WHO WORKS IN THE SURVEY AND ENGINEERING SECTION OF THE
ROAD & BRIDGE DEPARTMENT TOOK THE OTHER TWO UNDER THE DIRECTION OF
MR. BEINDORF.
THE TESTS WERE IDENTIFIED AS FOLLOWS AND MADE A PART OF THE
MINUTES:
9-I-77 1470 5TH AVENUE....... ExHIB T- 14"
9-19-77 825 GLENDALE ROAD..... EXHIBIT 15
9.-26-77 1351 4TH COURT........ EXHIBIT 16
P- 71977
8
Stability Index (2pHs - pH)=
Interpretation: Corrosive Non -Corrosive Scale Forming
p �
Appearance Clear
'Calculated
ND=Not Done C.A. Shulock
CHEMIST
This water wqs analyzed according to "Standard Methods for the examination of water and wastewater:' Latest Edition, APHA, AWWA and WPCF.
T66 Village Printer -Visibly Better Printing
SEP 2 7197
STANDARD
WATER A. R.
INDIAN Rim IR11111 5, INC,
400 S. 11. old Dixie
INDIAN RIVER
UTILITIES, INC.
Pero Beach, Ila.32AU
1301 ANGLE ROAD
s`'
.
~*�
T
FORT PIERCE,
FLORIDA 33450
/
syy/
Location 1470 -5th Avenue
Date Collected - 9/1/77
Collector Wilson Wetherington
Date Analyzed 9/1/77
Source of Sample IRC Road
S Bridp�e Dent.
Remarks
-
SUMMARY OF ANALYSIS
PPM
PPM
Total Dissolved Solids 103PC
428
Color
30
Total Hardness, as CaCO3
124
odor
None
Alkalinity, as CaCO3
268
Taste
None
Non -Carbonates, as CaCO3
( 0
'Carbon Dioxide, as CO2
42
Bicarbonate, HCO3
327
`Bicarbonate, as CaCO3
268
lion, Fe
0-6—
'Carbonate, as CaCO3
0
Sulfate, SO4
37
'Hydroxide, as CaCO3 _ _
0
Chloride, 0
186
Temperature at Collection, of
N.
Calcium, Ca
40
pH (Field)
Vn
Magnesium, Mg
5.8
PH (Laboratory)
7.1
Fluoride, F.
ND
pHs
11D
Stability Index (2pHs - pH)=
Interpretation: Corrosive Non -Corrosive Scale Forming
p �
Appearance Clear
'Calculated
ND=Not Done C.A. Shulock
CHEMIST
This water wqs analyzed according to "Standard Methods for the examination of water and wastewater:' Latest Edition, APHA, AWWA and WPCF.
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SEP 2 7197
t
s
-
STANDARD WATER A. R.
INDIAN RIVER UTILITIES, INC.
1301 ANGLE ROAD
R
FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA 33450
..
825 Glendale Road
Location Date Collected
9/19/77
Collector James Beindorf
Date Analyzed
9/20/77
Source of Sample Beindorf .t Associates
Remarks
SUMMARY OF ANALYSIS
PPM
ppm
Total Dissolved Solids 103PC
740 Color
25
Total Hardness, as CaCO3
192 Odor
None
Alkalinity, as CaCO3
280 Taste
Slight
Non -Carbonates, as CaCO3
0 `Carbon Dioxide, as CO2
Bicarbonate, HCO3
342 -Bicarbonate, as CaCO3
280
I ` Iron Fe
.
0.08 Carbonate, as CaCO3
0
Sulfate, SO4
40.9 'Hydroxide, as CaCO3
0
Chloride, Cl
255 Temperature at Collection, of
ND
Calcium, Ca
64 pH (Field)
- ND
Magnesium, Mg
7.8 pH (Laboratory)
7.2
Fluoride, F.
ND pHs
Stability Index (2pHs - pH)=
i
Interpretation: Corrosive
Non -Corrosive Scale Forming
Appearance Clear
'Calculated
' ND=Not Done
C.A. Shulock
CHEMIST
This water was analyzed according to "Standard Methods for the examination of water and wastewater:' Latest
Edition, APHA,
AWWA and WPt;F.
I
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31 FAGS 163
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STANDARD WATER A. R.
\1—
`U
c
_ INDIAN RIVER UTILITIES, INC.
1301 ANGLE ROAD
FORT PIERCE, FLORIDA 33450
Location 1351 -4th Court
Date Collected
9/26/77
y
i
Collector Wilson Wetherington Date Analyzed
9/26/77
Source of Sample Beindorf
& Associates
Remarks
I
SUMMARY OF ANALYSIS
ppm
ppm
Total Dissolved Solids 103PC
544 Color
25
i
Total Hardness, as CaCO3
116 Odor
None
Alkalinity, as CaCO3
324 Taste
None
Non -Carbonates, as CaCO3
`Carbon Dioxide, as CO2
Bicarbonate, HCO3
395 *Bicarbonate, as CaCO3
324
iron, Fe
0.48 'Carbonate, as CaCO3
0
Sulfate, SO4
42.3 'Hydroxide, as CaCO3
0
Chloride, Cl
194 Temperature at Collection, of
ND
Calcium, Ca
32_pH (Field)
ND
Magnesium, Mg
8.8- pH (Laboratory)
7.1
Fluoride, F.
pHs
Stability Index (2pHs - pH)=
Interpretation: Corrosive
Non -Corrosive Scale Forming
Appearance Clear
'Calculated
ND=Not Done
C.A. Shulock
CHEMIST
This water was analyzed according to "Standard Methods for the examination of water and wastewater.' Latest Edition, APHA, AWWA and WPCF,
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-
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Ril6K
31
1
PAGF 164 f
i
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT NOTED THAT MR, FOX SAID THE IRON CON-
TENT SHOWN ON THE TESTS COULD BE DUE TO THE INSTABILITY OF THE WATER.
HE POINTED OUT THAT TESTS DONE AT GLENDALE ROAD ON SEPTEMBER 19TH AND
1351 4TH COURT ON SEPTEMBER 26TH SHOWED IRON CONTENT VARYING FROM .08
TO .048 AND ASKED IF MR. FOX FELT THE RAW WATER WOULD VARY THAT MUCH
WITHIN A ONE—WEEK PERIOD.
MR. FOX DID NOT THINK IT WAS LIKELY.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT POINTED OUT THAT 4TH COURT IS IN THE
ROCKRIDGE AREA WHERE THERE IS GALVANIZED PIPE.
MR. FOX SAID THE ANSWER COULD WELL BE DIRECTLY RELATED TO
THE FLUSHING PROGRAM THAT THE UTILITY HAS CARRIED OUT. HE FELT THIS
COULD HAVE A DIRECT IMPACT ON THE TEST RESULTS.
COMMISSIONER SEIBERT POINTED OUT THAT FLUSHING DOES NOT
AFFECT RAW WATER, WHICH HE FELT COULD LEAD ONE TO BELIEVE THE WATER
IS PICKING UP IRON CONTENT IN THE ROCKRIDGE AREA.
MR. FOX NOTED THAT SAMPLES CAN VARY IN THE SYSTEM AND SAID
IF CONSISTANT SAMPLES WERE TAKEN OF THE FINISHED WATER THROUGHOUT THE
CEMENT ASBESTOS AREA AS WELL AS THE GALVANIZED, THEN THAT MIGHT BEGIN
TO SUBSTANTIATE SOMETHING.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT ASKED IF MR. FOX DOES ANY CONSULTING
FOR UTILITY FIRMS ON THE PURCHASE OF UTILITY SYSTEMS, AND MR. FOX _
SAID HE HAS BEEN INVOLVED IN THAT.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT CONTINUED THAT MR, FOX HAS TESTIFIED
THAT THE PLANT IS NOT LARGE ENOUGH TO WARRANT THE INVESTMENT TO BRING
IT UP TO PURITY STANDARDS AND THAT THE RAW WATER IS UNRELIABLE BOTH
AS TO VOLUME AND STABILITY. HE ASKED MR. FOX WHETHER HE WOULD ADVISE
ANY FIRM TO PURCHASE SUCH A SYSTEM WITHOUT BEING PREPARED TO MAKE A
CAPITAL INVESTMENT TO BRING IT UP TO ALL STANDARDS,
MR. FOX STATED THAT HE WOULD ADVISE IT BECAUSE THERE ARE--
ALTERNATIVES,
RE-ALTERNATIVES, HE STATED THAT THEY WOULD HAVE TO FIND A WAY OF BY—
PASSING THE EXISTING PLANT AND LOOK FOR A SOURCE THAT CAN BE BROUGHT
INTO THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM TO TAKE CARE OF THE CUSTOMERS, HE
CONTINUED THAT IT IS OBVIOUS THE CITY LINES ARE RIGHT THERE AND THERE
ARE POINTS OF CONNECTION WHICH WOULD BE LOGICAL, IF IT COULD BE WORKED
N
r
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT ASKED MR. FOX IF HE BELIEVED THE
PROBLEM WAS NOT IN THE RAW WATER AND NOT IN THE TREATMENT, BUT IN THE
DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, WOULD HE THEN ADVISE'A FIRM TO PURCHASE SUCH A
SYSTEM.
MR. FOX STATED THAT HE WOULD, BECAUSE IF THE PROBLEM WERE
IN THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM, IT OBVIOUSLY COULD ONLY BE IN ROCKRIDGE
WHERE THE GALVINIZED PIPE IS, AND BECAUSE IT IS ISOLATED IT WOULD
NOT BE THAT DIFFICULT TO REMEDY,
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT THEN REVIEWED WITH MR. FOX EXHIBITS
14, 15 AND 16, (TESTS OF THE WATER SAMPLES TAKEN ON SEPTEMBER 1ST,
19TH AND 26TH) TO DETERMINE WHETHER THEY WERE WITHIN ACCEPTABLE LIMITS
FOR THE STATE STANDARDS FOR TOTAL DISSOLVED SOLIDS, IRON AND COLOR.
AFTER AN ITEM BY ITEM REVIEW, COMMISSIONER SIEBERT POINTED OUT THAT
THE SAMPLE TAKEN ON SEPTEMBER 1ST FAILS TWO OF THE THREE STIPULATED
STANDARDS; THE SAMPLE TAKEN ON SEPTEMBER 19TH FAILS TWO OUT OF THREE;
AND THE SAMPLE TAKEN ON SEPTEMBER 26TH FAILS ALL THREE OF THE STIPU-
LATED STANDARDS.
COMMISSIONER LOY COMMENTED THAT SINCE OCTOBER OF 1973 THIS
BOARD HAS CONSISTENTLY BEEN TOLD BY THE OFFICIALS OF MID -FLORIDA
UTILITIES AND GENERAL WATERWORKS THAT THEY HAD EXCEPTIONALLY FINE
WATER AND THAT THEY HAD UPGRADED THE PLANT AND TREATED THE WATER BUT
IT WAS THE DISTRIBUTION -LINES THAT WERE CAUSING THE PROBLEM. SHE
FELT IT IS INTERESTING THAT THEIR TESTIMONY NOW IS DIRECTLY OPPOSITE.
COMMISSIONER LOY FURTHER POINTED OUT THAT THEY HAVE TESTIFIED THAT
THEY HAVE A LIMITED WATER SUPPLY AND DO NOT HAVE ANY PLANS FOR EX-
PANSION, BUT THIS SAME COMPANY AT ONE TIME HAD AN ENORMOUS FRANCHISE,
THOUGH THEY HAVE NOT SEEN FIT TO TRY TO EXPAND THEIR SYSTEM. SHE
CONTINUED THAT IN REGARD TO A WATER SOURCE, WE HAVE A NEW UTILITY
COMPANY LOCATED IN A FORMER FRANCHISE AREA OF MID -FLORIDA. COMMIS-
SIONER LOY REITERATED THAT MID -FLORIDA HAS CONSISTENTLY TOLD THE
BOARD THEY WERE PRODUCING A VERY GOOD WATER, BUT IT IS THE DISTRI-
BUTION LINES THAT CAUSE THE PROBLEMS.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED WHO TOLD THE BOARD ABOUT THE,DISTRI-
BUTION LINES.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT QUOTED FROM THE MINUTES OF THE MEETING
OF OCTOBER 10, 1973: "MR. WRIGHT STATED THAT THERE IS GALVANIZED PIPE
THROUGHOUT THIS FRANCHISE AREA AND STATED THAT THIS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM
13
SEP 2719,77 - ma 31 Pace 166
WITH RUST." COMMISSIONER SIEBERT FURTHER QUOTED FROM THE MINUTES OF
APRIL 20, 1974: "MR. WRIGHT ANSWERED THAT IN THE ROCKRIDGE AREA GAL-
VANIZED STEEL MAINS ARE USED, WHICH IS THE REASON FOR THE!BAD` WATER-
IN THAT AREA,
ATTORNEY GATLIN SAID HE DID NOT FEEL ANYTHING THAT WAS READ
INDICATES THAT THE COMPANY HAS EVER TOLD THIS COMMISSION THAT CHANG-
ING THE DISTRIBUTION LINES WOULD SOLVE THE PROBLEM.AND HE FELT THE
BOARD IS DRAWING CONCLUSIONS THAT ARE NOT NECESSARILY THE ONLY CON-
CLUSIONS THAT CAN BE DRAWN FROM THESE STATEMENTS. HE ALSO STATED THAT
THE BOARD IS ASKING MR. FOX TO RESPOND TO SOMETHING HE IS NOT PARTY."
M
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT NOTED THAT HE DID NOT ASK MR. FOX
BECAUSE HE IS PLANNING TO ASK MR. WRIGHT LATER.
ATTORNEY GATLIN CALLED IRA MCALLISTER AND ASKED WHEN HE
PREVIOUSLY COMPARED THE RAW WATER OF MID -FLORIDA AND VERO BEACH WATER
IF HE WAS COMPARING IT RELATIVE TO CHEMICAL CONTENT OR APPEARANCE.
MR. MCALLISTER SAID THAT IT WAS JUST ON THE BASIS OF APPEAR-
ANCE AS HE IS NO CHEMIST.
ATTORNEY GATLIN THEN ASKED HIM WHERE HE TOOK THE SECTIONS
OF PIPE WHICH MR. FOX EARLIER REFERRED T0, FROM THE SYSTEM.
MR. MCALLISTER STATED THAT HE OBTAINED ONE SECTION OF PIPE
AT THE REAR OF 1390 4TH COURT AND THE OTHER AT THE REAR OF 1550 6TH
AVENUE, - ONE YESTERDAY AFTERNOON AND ONE EARLY THIS MORNING. HE
CONTINUED THAT HE HAS HAD THESE SECTIONS OF PIPE IN HIS CAR EVER
SINCE.
COMMSSIONER SIEBERT ASKED IF MR. MCALLISTER HAD EVERY METER
READ EVERY MONTH.
MR. MCALLISTER ANSWERED THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO BE, AND
AS FAR AS HE KNOWS THEY ARE, BUT HE HAS A SUSPICION THAT HIS METER
READER MAY BE ESTIMATING SOME OF THEM, HE STATED HE TRIES TO SPOT
CHECK, BUT NOTED THAT EVERYONE CAN MAKE MISTAKES.
14
1977 A0Of A PAGE 167
COMMISSIONER SCHMUCKER QUESTIONED MR. MCALLISTER ABOUT THE
AGE OF THE PIPE SECTIONS AND AS TO WHETHER HE FELT THEY WOULD BE REPRE—
SENTATIVE SAMPLES. HE ALSO ASKED ABOUT THE SERVICE LINES.
MR, MCALLISTER STATED THAT HE HAS BEEN WITH THE COMPANY 15
YEARS AND KNOWS THE PIPE IS THAT OLD. HE ANSWERED THAT THE SERVICE
LINES WERE 997 GALVANIZED.
COMMISSIONER LOY ASKED IF THE METER READER IS AN EMPLOYEE
OF MID—FLORIDA OR IF THIS IS A CONTRACT SERVICE, AND MR MCALLISTER
STATED THAT IT IS A CONTRACT SERVICE.
COMMISSIONER LOY NOTED THAT MR, MCALLISTER HAD TESTIFIED
AT THE LAST HEARING THAT HE CONDUCTS A FLUSHING PROGRAM BETWEEN THE
21sT AND 25TH OF EACH MONTH BUT IN DIFFERENT AREAS ON A MONTHLY BASIS
AND ASKED WHAT HE HAD DONE IN THE AREA OF COLONIAL TERRACE THE LAST
OF AUGUST THAT MADE THE WATER CLEAR UP.
MR, MCALLISTER ANSWERED THAT HE HAD DONE NOTHING DIFFERENT
THAN HE HAS BEEN DOING,; THAT HE FLUSHED THE ENTIRE SYSTEM ON TWO
DIFFERENT NIGHTS BUT NOT EVERY SINGLE LINE.
DISCUSSION CONTINUED ON THE FLUSHING OF THE SYSTEM, AND COM—
MISSIONER LOY NOTED THAT THE CUSTOMERS WERE NOT NOTIFIED WHEN THE
SYSTEM WAS RECENTLY FLUSHED, AND THE WATER WAS OFF ALMOST ALL NIGHT.
MR, MCALLISTER SAID THEY WILL BE NOTIFIED NEXT TIME, AND
POINTED OUT THAT THE WATER WAS OFF AND ON ALL NIGHT, BUT YOU LOSE
WATER PRESSURE WHEN IT IS OFF IN SPOTS.
COMMISSIONER LOY REQUESTED THAT THE SECTIONS OF PIPE RE—
FERRED TO BE BROUGHT IN FOR THE BOARD TO SEE.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE REQUESTED MR. CARROLL WRIGHT TO COME FOR—
WARD.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT NOTED THAT AS REFLECTED IN THE MIN—
UTES OF FORMER MEETINGS, MR WRIGHT ON SEVERAL OCCASIONS ALLUDED TO
THE PROBLEM BEING IN THE DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM AND NOT IN THE RAW WATER.
MR WRIGHT STATED THAT AT THE TIME HE WAS BEFORE THE BOARD
IN MID—FLORIDAIS RATE CASE IN 1973, THEY ADMITTED THAT THERE WERE SOME
WATER QUALITY PROBLEMS,WHICH WAS A SURPRISE TO HIM. HE CONTINUED
THAT HE LATER TOLD THE BOARD THAT THEIR ENGINEERING STAFF FELT THE
PROBLEM COULD BE SOLVED BY THE PURCHASE AND.INSTALLATION OF A.WATER
SOFTENING SYSTEM, THE REFURBISHING OF THE OLD SYSTEM, AND THE INTRO—
DUCTION OF CERTAIN CHEMICALS.
MR. WRIGHTSAIDHE DID NOT BELIEVE HE d
15
SEP 2 7197.7
EVER' TESTIFIED THAT THIS WOULD PRODUCE PERFECT WATER, BUT.THAT IT
WOULD PRODUCE POTABLE WATER, AND HE BELIEVES IT HAS DONE SO AS THE
REPORTS GIVEN BY THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT OF THE SAMPLES TAKEN ON A
PERIODIC BASIS INDICATE THAT THE SAMPLES ARE SATISFACTORY AND MEET
HEALTH STANDARDS. MR. WRIGHT CONTINUED THAT THEY DISCUSSED AT GREAT
LENGTH THE PROBLEM EXISTING IN THE ROCKRIDGE AREA, WHICH IS THE SHELL
AND THE.GALVANIZED PIPE AND THAT THERE WERE SOME PROBLEMS THAT THEY
FELT THE GALVANIZED PIPE WAS PROVIDING. HE STATED THAT THE ENGINEERS
FELT THAT THE SEQUESTERING OF THIS WATER AT THE PLANT AND IN THE PIPE
WOULD BRING THE ROCKRIDGE AREA PIPE TO POTABLE CONDITIONS. MR. WRIGHT
NOTED THAT THE REPLACEMENT OF.THE PIPE AND THE COST THAT WOULD OCCUR,
IF THAT WAS THE ONLY SOLUTION, WAS DISCUSSED, BUT THE ENGINEERS
WANTED TO TRY THE OTHER ALTERNATIVE. MR. WRIGHT STATED THAT HE THINKS
WHAT HAS HAPPENED IS THAT THE SEQUESTERING, THE FLUSHING AND THE
INTRODUCTION OF CHEMICALS AND USE OF ADDITIONAL WATER SOFTING AGENTS
DID SOLVE THE PROBLEM, AND HE BELIEVES THIS HAS BEEN BORNE OUT BY
THE TESTIMONY OF MR, FOX. MR. WRIGHT CONTINUED THAT HE DOES NOT
RECALL SAYING THAT THE REPLACEMENT OF THAT PIPE WOULD SOLVE ALL
PROBLEMS, AND IF HE DID SAY SO, HE WAS CERTAINLY WRONG BECAUSE HE
HAS COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IT WOULD NOT BE NECESSARY; THAT IT
WOULD BE AN EXPENSE THAT WOULD BE A BURDEN ON THE RATE PAYERS. HE
STATED THAT HE FEELS THE RATES ARE HIGH NOW EVEN THOUGH THEY DO NOT
PROVIDE THEM WITH THE RATE OF.RETURN THEY SHOULD HAVE ON THEIR IN-
VESTMENT. HE ALSO DID NOT FEEL A PLANT AS DESCRIBED BY MR. FOX IS
THE SOLUTION AS HE DID NOT BELIEVE IT WOULD SOLVE THE ENTIRE PROBLEM
AND WOULD BE MUCH TOO EXPENSIVE.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT REQUESTED MR. FOX TO COME FORWARD
AND EXAMINE BOTH SECTIONS OF PIPE BROUGHT IN BY MR, ALLISTER.
MR. FOX EXAMINED THE PIPE AND STATED THAT THERE IS A COAT-
ING ON THE INSIDE OF THE PIPE, IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF 2%, AND AGREED
THERE IS DEFINITELY RUST IN THE PIPE WHICH IS CAUSED BY MINERAL DE-
POSIT. HE POINTED OUT, HOWEVER, THAT WHEN THE PIPE DRIES, THIS DE-
POSIT STARTS TO FLAKE OFF, BUT WHEN THE WATER PASSES THROUGH IT, THE
INSIDE OF THE PIPE IS SLIMY AND THIS DOESNIT OCCUR. THE SECTIONS OF
PIPE WERE MARKED AS EXHIBITS 17 (TAKEN.F.ROM THE REAR OF 1540-1550
6TH AVE.) AND 18 (TAKEN FROM THE REAR OF 1390 4TH COURT) AND ARE ON
_ r
FILE IN THE OFFICE OF THE CLERK.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT QUESTIONED MR. WRIGHT IN REGARD TO HIS
STATEMENTS BLAMING THE WATER PROBLEMS ON THE CONDITION OF THE DISTRI-
BUTION SYSTEM.
MR, WRIGHT SAID HE MIGHT HAVE DISCUSSED FIGURES FOR THE COST
OF REPLACEMENT OF THE PIPES, NOTING THAT THE POSSIBILITY OF REPLACING
ALL OF THE GALVANIZED PIPES HAS BEEN A SUBJECT THAT HAS CROPPED UP IN
THE LAST FOUR 'OR FIVE YEARS BECAUSE TECHNOLOGY NOW SAYS GALVANIZED PIPE IS
NOT AN ACCEPTABLE PRODUCT FOR THE DELIVERY OF WATER. HE FELT HE
MIGHT HAVE MENTIONED THOSE COSTS AS AN ILLUSTRATION AS TO WHAT THAT
KIND OF REPLACEMENT WOULD COST IN REGARD TO THE RATE OF RETURN.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT QUOTED FROM THE MINUTES OF THE MEET-
ING OF SEPTEMBER 14, 1977, AS FOLLOWS: "MR. WRIGHT CONTINUED THAT AS
TO THE QUALITY OF WATER IN ROCKRIDGE, IN 1974 THEY FELT THAT THIS
PROBLEM WAS DUE TO THE OLD GALVANIZED 2" MAINS WHICH CONTRIBUTE TO
THE BRED WATER LOOK.' HE STATED THAT THEY HAVE TRIED TO CLEAR UP
THAT PROBLEM BY CONSTANT FLUSHING. THE ENGINEERING STAFF FEELS THE
ONLY SOLUTION IS THE TOTAL REPLACEMENT OF THE GALVANIZED MAIN...."
MR. WRIGHT SAID THAT TESTIMONY WAS GIVEN BASED ON INFORMA-
TION HE HAD AT THAT TIME, AND HE HAS SINCE LEARNED FROM TESTIMONY
_GIVEN BY MR. FOX, THAT THIS IS NOT TRUE.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT ASKED MR. WRIGHT IF HIS COMPANY HAS
EVER DONE A TEST AFTER THE WATER WAS TREATED AND AT THE HOME.
MR. WRIGHT REPLIED THAT HE DIRECTED THEIR MANAGEMENT ENGI-
NEER, JOHN KNOWLES, TO CONDUCT SUCH A TEST, AND MR. KNOWLES RECOM-
MENDED THE SEQUESTERING AND THE WATER SOFTNER.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT ASKED IF MR. KNOWLES IS THE ENGINEER
TO WHOM MR. WRIGHT REFERRED WHEN HE SAID THE ENGINEERING STAFF FEELS
THE ONLY SOLUTION IS THE TOTAL REPLACEMENT OF THE GALVANIZED MAIN.
MR. WRIGHT SAID HE SAID THAT, NOT:THE-ENGINEERS.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT POINTED OUT THAT THE MINUTES REFLECT
THAT MR, WRIGHT SAID THE ENGINEERING SATFF.MADE THIS STATEMENT, AND
MR.WRIGHT SAID, "THEN, THAT IS NOT A TRUE STATEMENT."
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT ASKED MR. WRIGHT IF HE FELT A UTILITIES
COMPANY IS ENTITLED TO RATE OF RETURN REGARDLESS OF THE QUALITY OF
THE WATER, AND MR. WRIGHT SAID HE DID BECAUSE A UTILITY COMAPNY CAN-
NOT GIVE SERVICE WITHOUT A RATE OF RETURN.
17
SEP 2 7191,77 M' a 31 PAP, F 170
�l
DISCUSSION ENSUED ON THE RATE OF RETURN OF UTILITY COMPANIES
IN VARIOUS COUNTIES, AND MR. WRIGHT NOTED THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE
IN THE EFFICIENCY OF THE OPERATION, THE SIZE OF THE OPERATIONS AND
THE CC14DITIONS UNDER WHICH SERVICE IS PROVIDED. NO ONE UTILITY COM-
PANY CAN BE DIRECTLY COMPARED TO ANOTHER.
COMMISSIONER LOY ASKED MR. WRIGHT IF THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL
IN OBTAINING AN INCREASE IN RATES, WHAT ADDITIONAL IMPROVEMENTS THEY
ARE PLANNING FOR THIS SYSTEM.
f4R. WRIGHT STATED THAT THE PETITION FOR THE INCREASED RATES
IS BASED ON WHAT THEIR EXPENSES WERE IN THE TEST YEAR OF 1976 AND WHAT THE
CONDITIONS WERE AT THE TIME AND THE FACT THAT AT THAT TIME THEY
SHOULD HAVE HAD RATES COMMENSURATE WITH WHAT THEY ARE NOW PETITIONING
FOR,. HE CONTINUED THAT HE IS NOT SAYING, HOWEVER, THAT THE COMPANY
WILL NOT MEET THE PROBLEMS THAT CONFRONT IT.
COMMISSIONER Loy POINTED OUT THAT THEY HAVE INCLUDED FOR
IMMEDIATE EXPENSE THE COST OF MOVING THE UTILITIES FOR THE 17TH STREET
BRIDGE IN THE COMING YEAR AND ALSO THE COST OF THIS RATE STUDY, WHICH
TWO ITEMS COME TO A SIZEABLE AMOUNT OF MONEY. SHE CONTINUED THAT IF
THE INCREASE WERE GRANTED, AFTER TWO YEARS THEY WOULD HAVE THOSE EX-
PENSES PAID FOR, AND ASKED WHAT THEIR PLANS WOULD BE IN THE FUTURE
FOR WHAT SHE WOULD FEEL WOULD BE EXCESS MONEY.
MR. WRIGHT STATED THAT THESE MONIES MUST BE SPENT ANYWAY,
AND IT SIMPLY MEANS THEY ARE NOT BEING PAID FOR THE INVESTMENT IT
TAKES TO DO THIS.
COMMISSIONERLOY COMMENTED THAT ALL THEY HAVE DONE IS TO
KEEP ON CONDUCTING THE SAME KIND OF SERVICE THAT THEY DID TWO YEARS
AGO, WHICH IS ENTIRELY UNSATISFACTORY AS FAR AS THE PEOPLE ARE CON-
CERNED, BUT YET THEY COME AND BRING ALL THESE EXPERTS AND ASK THESE
PEOPLE TO SHARE THE BURDEN OF THE COST TO RUN THEIR COMPANY.
MR. WRIGHT STATED THAT THE TESTIMONY THAT HAS BEEN GIVEN
HERE, PARTICULARLY BY THE CUSTOMERS AT THE MEETING OF SEPTEMBER 14TH,
WAS A BIT OF AN EYE OPENER FOR HIM. HE NOTED THAT THE MAJORITY OF
COMPLAINTS REPORTED TO HIM HAVE BEEN HIGH BILL COMPLAINTS, AND OVER
THE LAST SIX MONTHS HE HAS ONLY SEEN 12 COMPLAINTS CONCERNING THE
QUALITY OF THE WATER, HE AGREED THESE ARE NOT TO BE IGNORED, BUT IT
WOULDNIT SEEM TO INDICATE SUCH A TREMENDOUS PROBLEM AS THE PEOPLE
18
K 31 Qac 171
SEP 2 71977
INDICATED WHO TESTIFIED ON SEPTEMBER 14TH, HE CONTINUED THAT THEY DO NOT
TAKE THESE COMPLAINTS LIGHTLY, WHICH IS WHY HE GAVE THE PEOPLE HIS PHONE
NUMBER AND MR. OVERSTREET'S, AND THE PEOPLE RESPONDED. HE NOTED THAT HE
GOT SOME COLLECT CALLS WHEN THE FLUSHING WAS DONE WITHOUT NOTIFICATION,
AND HE HOPES TO BE ABLE TO WORK OUT A SET SCHEDULE WHEN THIS FLUSHING WILL
BE DONE SO PEOPLE WILL KNOW WHEN TO EXPECT IT. HE STATED THAT HE WILL
BE GLAD TO FILE SUCH A SCHEDULE WITH ADMINISTRATOR JENNINGS.
COMMISSIONER LOY NOTED THAT THE REASON THEY DONT RECEIVE A
MULTITUDE OF COMPLAINTS IS THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE GOTTEN VERY DISCOURAGED
ABOUT COMPLAINING BECAUSE NOTHING IS EVER DONE, AND SHE FEELS THAT NOW
THEY MAY BE DELUGED WITH COMPLAINTS.
COMMISSIONER SCHMUCKER SAID, AS HE UNDERSTOOD IT, WHEN THEY
WERE GRANTED THE LAST RATE INCREASE, THEY SPENT $34,000 IN IMPROVEMENTS
IN ONE YEAR, BUT THEN MADE NO FURTHER IMPROVEMENTS AND NOW THEY ARE
SAYING THEY DON T PLAN ON MAKING ANY.
MR. WRIGHT SAID HE DID NOT MEAN TO CONVEY THAT THEY WILL NEVER
MAKE ANY IMPROVEMENTS, AND HE BELIEVES THEY WILL MAKE WHATEVER IS INDI-
CATED OR NECESSARY. HE NOTED THAT WHEN THE PIPE IS RELOCATED FOR THE
STREET WIDENING, IT WILL BE UPGRADED,
COMMISSIONER SCHMUCKER STATED THAT IT BOTHERS HIM THAT THEY
HAVE NOT IMPROVED THE SYSTEM FOR THREE YEARS AND STILL CANNOT TELL- US
,TODAY OF ANY PROJECTED IMPROVEMENTS.
MR. WRIGHT SAID HE DID NOT BELIEVE THAT IT HAD BEEN BROUGHT
TO HIS ATTENTION THAT IMPROVEMENTS TO THIS SYSTEM WERE NECESSARY EXCEPT
AT THE SEPTEMBER 14TH MEETING AT WHICH THERE WERE A GREAT NUMBER OF
COMPLAINTS, HE CONTINUED THAT THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS THEY HAVE HAD
AS A RESULT OF THESE HEARINGS MEANS A CONSIDERABLE INVESTIGATION TO SEE
WHAT IS WRONG, AND HE FEELS THE STUDY MADE BY MR. FOX IS A GOOD BEGINNING.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT NOTED THAT MR. FOX HAS ONLY BEEN IN THE
EMPLOY OF GENERAL WATERWORKS TWO DAYS.
COMMISSIONER Loy SUGGESTED MR. WEIGHT READ THE MINUTES OF THE
1973 MEETING AND COMPARE THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE STATED THAT HE FEELS IT IS AN ABSOLUTE NECESSITY
THAT ANY COMPANY PRODUCING WATER FOR THE RESIDENTS OF THIS COUNTY GET
THE WATER TO THEM IN A CONDITION WHERE THEY CAN DRINK IT, TAKE A BATH
IN IT AND WASH THEIR CLOTHES IN IT, BUT NOTHING IN THE TESTIMONY HE HAS
> 19
• �'��3.. t"�r 172
SEP 271977
HEARD TODAY SEEMS TO INDICATE THAT IS THE WATER THAT WILL BE MADE AVAIL-
ABLE TO THESE PEOPLE. HE CONTINUED THAT THESE PEOPLE HAVE THE ABILITY
TO PAY FOR SUCH WATER AND ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT, AND HE WOULD HOPE
THEY CAN RECEIVE IT.
ATTORNEY GATLIN CALLED MR. FOX FOR FURTHER QUESTIONING IN
REGARD TO THE SECTIONS OF PIPE, EXHIBITS 17 AND 18, AND ASKED HIM IF THE
CLAY OR DIRT ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE PIPE WOULD HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH
THE QUALITY OR ADEQUACY OF THE PIPE.
MR.FOX STATED THAT IT WOULD NOT,
ATTORNEY GATLIN THEN NOTED THAT ON THE INSIDE OF THE PIPE THERE
IS SOME DRY, RUST-COLORED DEPOSITS AND SOME OTHER DIRT, AND ASKED MR,
FOX TO EXPLAIN WHAT HAPPENS TO THAT WHEN THE PIPE IS ACTUALLY IN SERVICE
AS DISTINGUISHED FROM BEING OUT OF THE GROUND FOR SEVERAL DAYS AND
DRIED OUT.
MR. FOX NOTED THAT BOTH PIPES ARE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME AND
BOTH HAVE BEEN OUT OF THE GROUND FOR SOME TIME AND ARE NOW DRY. BECAUSE
OF THIS, THE DEPOSIT WILL EASILY FLAKE OFF, BUT WHEN THE WATER IS RUNNING
THROUGH THE PIPE, THIS IS NOT THE CASE. HE FELT THIS IS BORNE OUT BY
THE CHEMICAL ANALYSES THE COUNTY HAD DONE IN THAT TURBIDITY WAS NOT
REFLECTED. MR. FOX NOTED THAT IF THESE DEPOSITS WERE BEING FLAKED OFF
INTO THE WATER, IT WOULD SHOW UP IN TURBIDITY, WHICH REFLECTS FINE_
PARTICLES IN SUSPENSION AS OPPOSED TO COLOR WHICH REFLECTS PARTICLES IN
A COLLOIDAL STATE. HE FELT THIS INDICATES THAT THE SEQUESTERING AND THE
RUST INHIBITOR IS FORMING A CHEMICAL REACTION WITH THE WATER AND COATING
THE INSIDE OF THE PIPE AND CONTAINING THE DEPOSIT.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED MR. FOX IF THIS PIPE WAS IN SERVICE WHETHER
THE WATER WOULD BE SAFE AND WHETHER HE WOULD DRINK IT.
MR. FOX SAID "LET US SAY THERE IS NO REASON TO THINK I WOULD
NOT." MR. FOX CONTINUED THAT HE FOUND IT SURPRISING THAT AFTER THIS
LENGTH OF TIME THAT THE DIAMETER OF THE PIPE HAS BEEN DECREASED SO LITTLE,
ONLY 1.5 To 2.0 REDUCTION WHICH IS EXTREMELY GOOD.
ATTORNEY GATLIN ASKED IF MR. FOX WOULD SAY THE PIPES ARE IN A
NORMAL CONDITION, AND MR. FOX FELT THEY.WERE BETTER THAN NORMAL.
COMMISSIONER SIEBERT NOTED.THAT THE TESTS THE COUNTY HAD DONE
DO NOT MONITOR TURBIDITY.
MR. FOX FELT THAT IF TURBIDITY DID NOT APPEAR ON THE REPORT, IT
20
T Fj,
SEP 2' 1977
HAD NOT SHOWN UP OR IT WOULD HAVE BEEN TYPED IN.
THE CHAIRMAN NOTED THAT THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF THE PREVIOUS
PUBLIC HEARING AND ASKED IF ANYONE PRESENT WISHED TO BE HEARD.
ANNE SEDGES OF 1895 LOTH PLACE AND ALFRED $CHNEIDER OF 1370 4TH
COURT BOTH COMPLAINED ABOUT THE WAY THE METERS ARE BEING READ AND SOME-
TIMES ESTIMATED INSTEAD OF READ, AND MR. $CHNEIDER STATED HE DID NOT
FEEL MID -FLORIDA IS ENTITLED TO AN INCREASE UNLESS THEY FIX THE PIPES.
EDWARD SCHMIDT OF 3RD COURT COMPLAINED THAT THE BOARD ALLOWED,
THE REPRESENTATIVE OF MID -FLORIDA THREE HOURS TO BE HEARD AND IS ONLY
ALLOWING THE CUSTOMERS 10 MINUTES. HE NOTED THAT THE PIPES IN BACK OF
HIS HOUSE ARE 6" AND HE DOESN'T GET ANY BETTER WATER. MR. $CHMIDT ALSO
NOTED THAT MR. WRIGHT TESTIFIED THAT ONLY 12 PEOPLE COMPLAINED, BUT HE
POINTED OUT THAT THERE WERE ABOUT 125 PEOPLE AT THE MEETING OF SEPTEM-
BER 14TH WHO CAME TO COMPLAIN ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE WATER. HE SUG-
GESTED THAT THE COUNTY NEGOTIATE WITH THE CITY TO GET GOOD WATER FOR THEM.
HILDA DURANT ASKED THE BOARD IF IT WOULD BE PERMISSIBLE TO CUT
,I
OFF FROM THE MID -FLORIDA WATER SYSTEM AND NOT PAY THE $5,00.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE STATED THAT THEY COULD DO THIS IF THEY COULD
OBTAIN ANOTHER SOURCE TO PROVIDE THEIR OWN WATER, BUT HE NOTED THERE
MIGHT BE SOME PROBLEM IN OBTAINING PERMITS.
NO ONE FURTHER WISHED TO BE HEARD,
ON MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SIEBERT, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER
$CHMUCKER, THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING.
DISCUSSION FOLLOWED AS TO WHEN A DECISION WILL BE MADE, AND
CHAIRMAN WODTKE ANNOUNCED THAT THE BOARD
WILL MAKE A DECISION WITHIN 30
DAYS AND WILL NOTIFY MID -FLORIDA AT WHICH MEETING THE DECISION WILL
BE MADE.
CHAIRMAN WODTKE REQUESTED THAT AN EMERGENCY ITEM BE ADDED TO
THE AGENDA AS TO RIGHT-OF-WAY ACQUISITION AND CONSTRUCTION OF RANCH ROAD,
ON MOTION BY COMMISSIONER Loy, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER DEESON,
THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY ADDED TO THE AGENDA THE EMERGENCY ITEM REQUESTED BY
CHAIRMAN WODTKE.
ON MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SIEBERT, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER LOY,.
THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED RESOLUTION No. 77-99,
21
rA I _474
SEP 2 71977
RESOLUTION NO. 77- 99
WHEREAS, Indian River County is anxious to continue
its road building program within the County and
WHEREAS, Ranch Road from Barber Avenue to North Winter
Beach Road, under Budget Item No. 425350, is a prime concern
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS OF INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, FLORIDA, That the
Department of Transportation is hereby authorized to pursue
Federal aid for right-of-way acquisition and construction
of Ranch Road (State Road 609) from Barber Avenue to the
North Winter Beach Road, under Budget Item No. 425350.
This Resolution shall become effective as of the 27th
day of September—, 1977.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF
INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, FLORIDA
By 0�4g24t-qt <:
William C. Wodtke, Jr/, Chairman
Attest:
1
Freda Wright, C1 k
SEP 27197?
ADMINISTRATOR .JENNINGS REQUESTED THAT AN EMERGENCY ITEM BE
ADDED TO TODAY �S AGENDA AS PER HIS MEMO OF SEPTEMBER,27TH AS FOLLOWS:
�S1VFR BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
C WILLIAM C. WODTKE, JR., Chairman
ALMA LEE LOY. Vice Chairman
q `C WILLARD W. SIEBERT, JR.
>�t t•;,.,a* � EDWIN S. SCHMUCKER
R. DON DEESON
JACK G. JENNINGS, Administrator 2145 14th Avenue' Vero Beach, Florida 32960
September 27, 1977
MEMORANDUM
Board of County Commissioners and County Attorney
I am requesting that a resolution be prepared by the
Board of County Commissioners to the Florida Department of
Transportation requesting D.O.T. to return to Indian River
County Parcel No. 100, Section 88040-2508-S.R. 512, I.R.C.
The subject property was deeded to the State on
September 21, 1967 for development by the State of a Wayside
Park (see enclosed copy of deed).
The park has since been abandoned by the D.O.T. and is
currently needed by Indian River County for public purposes.
t1110,
G. tenni s County A istrator
ON MOTION BY COMMISSIONER Loy, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER SIEBERT,
THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY ADDED TO THE AGENDA THE EMERGENCY ITEM REQUESTED
. BY ADMINISTRATOR .JENNINGS.
ON MOTION BY COMMISSIONER SIEBERT, SECONDED BY COMMISSIONER Loy,
THE BOARD UNANIMOUSLY ADOPTED RESOLUTION No.. 77-100.
23
t
RESOLUTION NO. 77- 100
WHEREAS, on September 20, 1967 the Board of County
Commissioners of Indian River County, Florida conveyed to the
State of Florida for the use and benefit of the State Road
Department certain properties as described hereinafter and
labeled Parcel No. 100.1, State Road 512; and
WHEREAS, the Department of Transportation for the State
of Florida has indicated no further need for the hereinafter
described property; and
WHEREAS, a need exists in Indian River County, Florida for
further use of the property hereinafter described;
NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED BY THE BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS OF INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, FLORIDA, That the Board
.requests a reconveyance from the State of Florida Department
of Transportation of the following described property:
BEGINNING at the Northwest corner of Tract 1644. according
to the plat of Fellsmere Farms Drainage District Sub-
division as recorded in Plat Book 2, at Page 36 of the
Public Records of St. Lucie County, Florida, run Easterly
along the North line of Said Tract 1644 a distance of
120.12 feet; thence Southerly a distance of 137.40 feet
to a point in the Northerly Right -of -Way line of State
Road 512, said point being 127.50 feet Easterly of the
West line of said Tract 1644; thence Westerly along the
Northerly Right -of -Way line of State Road 512 a
distance of 474.24 feet to a point in said Northerly
..Right -of -Way line; thence N 58°38' E. along a line 60
feet Northwesterly of and parallel to the center line
of the old pavement of State Road 512 a distance of
' 376.30 feet; thence Southeasterly at a right angle
to the last mentioned course a distance of 63.54 feet
back to the POINT OF BEGINNING; all according to a
survey by Lloyd and Associates of Vero Beach, Florida,
dated July 12. 1967, of Wayside Park of Fellsmere Road
East of-Fellsmere on State Road No. 512. Said land now
lying and being in Indian River County, Florida.
to be used for public purposes.
This Resolution shall become effective on the 27th
day of September , 1977.
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS OF
INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, FL RIDA ( {
By lYGQ 1l/ I s'
William C. Wodtke, Jrkl, Chairman
Attest:
Freda Wright, C1
SEP 971977
i
THERE BEING NO FURTHER BUSINESS. ON MOTION MADE, SECONDED AND
CARRIED. THE BOARD ADJOURNED AT 6:30 O'CLOCK P.M,
ATTEST:
� - - 14
CLERK CHAIRMAN