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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1/30/1985 (2)NORTH COUNTY FIRE Wednesday, January 30, 1985 The District'Board of Fire Commissioners of the North Indian River County Fire District -met in Joint Session with the North Indian River County Fire District Advisory Committee at the County Commission Chambers, County Administration Building, 1840 25th Street, Vero Beach, Florida, on Wednesday, January 30, 1985, at 4:25 o'clock P.M. Present were Margaret C. Bowman, Chairman; William C. Wodtke, Jr., Vice Chairman; Richard N. Bird; Patrick B. Lyons; and Don C. Scurlock, Jr. Also present were Michael J. Wright, County Administrator; Gary Brandenburg, County Attorney; Jeffrey Barton, OMB Director; and Virginia Hargreaves, Deputy Clerk. The following members of the North County Advisory Committee were present with Chairman James Gallagher being absent: Grover Fletcher, Vice Chairman Ralph Arand, Sebastian, Fire Chief Leroy Parkhurst, Sebastian, President Norbert Resop, Roseland, Fire Chief Howard McClain, Roseland, President Ivan McGhee, Fellsmere, Fire Chief Al Freeman, Fellsmere, President Howard Marcley, Vero Lakes Est., Fire Chief Jerry Peeler, Vero Lakes Est., President Frances Betz, Vero Lakes Est., Ex Officio Chairman Bowman called the meeting to order. Commissioner Scurlock commented that the North County Fire District was created and has been in existence over four years, and in that time the Board and the Advisory Committee have never met eye to eye. He believed there has been a lack of communication, and both entities feel some things are wrong and some right. Commissioner Scurlock realized the creation of the District involved a difficult change -over from the old ways, necessitating a new bookkeeping setup for audit purposes, questions about protocol, etc., but this is such an important activity and the North County is experiencing such tremendous AN 3 0 1995 BOOK � F°E719 � J J JAN 3 0 1995 aooK 50 790 1-0 growth that he believed it is very important for the Advisory Committee and the Board to mend our fences so we can be on the same wave length and work together to plan for the future. Grover Fletcher, Vice Chairman of the Advisory Committee, believed this will require some specifics. He noted, quite frankly, that he has been absent for the last three meetings of the Advisory Committee and believed that one of the key problems relating to communication is that leadership has fallen down. Commissioner Bird felt one of the most important things to discuss is what we mutually see as the long range future of the North County Fire District, especially as to whether it is envisioned as feasible to continue to operate on a totally volunteer basis and on a half mill cap. Mr. Fletcher reported that at the last meeting he attended, the philosophy expressed was to maintain a volunteer effort as long as possible. They did look at maps and station locations that would not be overlapping and are right now working with the Wabasso area regarding a possible station there. The basic consensus is that the half mill cap will not be enough when the District gets into four or five fire departments. It was hoped property values would go up enough and possibly some repair costs could be eliminated so it would not be necessary to ask for a millage increase permanently, and they wanted to have the one year increase and see how it goes. If after the newer equipment comes on line and it is found the District still is cutting too close, then they would ask for more millage. Commissioner Scurlock noted that one of the impressions he gets from some is that instead of thinking as a unified North County District, the various fire departments. think of themselves as separate entities, and Commissioner Bird believed it will require strong individual leadership to bring all of these together into a unified body. Mr. Fletcher agreed that is the key problem. 2 - M M Commissioner Wodtke spoke of the history of the District, and felt the total communications problem is not just the fault of the District. He emphasized that the District has done a good job, but there are problems in the overall administration, and, this results in such things as the Vero Lake Estates group coming separately to the Commission for assistance, which puts the Commission in a difficult position. Mr. Fletcher noted that at this point the County actually does not own anything in the North County Fire District, trucks or land, and therefore, if any particular department asks for the Commission's aid, he suggested that the Commission ask if the department is willing to deed the land to the District. He noted that so far each department has held firm in saying they are going to own their own building. He further suggested that there be a specific liaison individual between the Commission and the District who would attend all the Advisory Committee meetings. He would hope this could be worked into the job description of one of the County staff members and that some sort of sharing of cost ratio could be worked out. Administrator Wright agreed that there is a need to establish what some of our administrative level functions are. We now perform administrative functions, such as accounting, etc., at no cost to the North County while the South County District has to pay for such services. Commissioner Scurlock confirmed that we contract with the City of Vero Beach to perform these functions for the South County District at a cost of $150,000 a year. It is possible that this next budget year, our staff may take this over and then there will be a charge to the District for the bookkeeping, etc. Commissioner Lyons clarified that the County does not pick up the check for the administration of the South County Fire District - this is paid for out of the tax that is levied by the South County District. He continued that we have a situation where we have two fire districts, both in a situation to levy 3 JAN 3 0 1985 BOOK 59 f,n-E 721 JAN 3 0 1995 BOOK 59 i'NcF 722 taxes, and it puts us in a very bad situation when they ask for money out of the General Fund to supplement their taxing. It is similar to our dealings with the School Board which is a separate taxing entity. Commissioner Lyons emphasized that it is the Commission's responsibility, acting as the District Board of Fire Commissioners of the North County Fire District, to assure there is adequate fire protection and coverage for the entire District area. It seems, however, a problem has arisen in regard to the Vero Lake Estates department. The Commission feels there should be an active station out there, but it seems there is some difference of opinion on the Advisory Board, not as a unified Board apparently, but as members of different fire department. Commissioner Lyons pointed out that as of this moment we have a Fire District that owns no property, except some miscellaneous equipment, but at the same time, we are charged with the responsibility of fire coverage for this whole area. Mr. Fletcher did not feel there is any doubt that the Vero Lakes station should be out there, but there is a question relating to the degree of speed at which it should be completed. Commissioner Scurlock noted that originally in the South County Fire District, the City of Vero Beach owned everything, and what we ended up doing was a master plan to show that everybody would get a fair share of protection, equipment, etc., and that it would all balance out in phases - some might get more in the first phase, etc. Discussion re Proficiency Standards for Volunteer Firemen Commissioner Lyons inquired about the requirements for a certain proficiency among the volunteers, and Administator Wright stated that there is no minimum requirement for volunteer firefighters, but the State says we can create a basic standard. General Services Director Dean reported that two courses are offered - a basic 60 hour course and an advanced 40 hours that 4 _ M could be a required part of volunteer fire service, but this is not mandated by the State. Chairman Bowman believed what the Board would like to know is how many qualified firemen each fire company has. Ralph Arand, Sebastian Fire Chief, noted that certified and trained are two different things, and he believed probably very few are certified. He stated that he personally is a professional firefighter at the Cape, and his station has a number of retired firemen. Chief Arand noted that they have had training courses for their own individual training, and he did not believe any man at any station is sent into a fire without any training. Commissioner Scurlock inquired about the number of hours the training consists of, and Chief Arand stated that there is some on-the-job training; there are stand-by observers when there is a fire; and they have some training every Tuesday night. He noted that some courses are offered through the Community College and the Fire College in Ocala. Mr. Fletcher asked how many in the Sebastian Department have been through the 200 hour course at the Indian River College, and Chief Arand believed possibly four out of twenty-five. Norbert Resop, Roseland Fire Chief, reported that out of the nineteen or twenty volunteers in their department, they have one retired fireman from up north; no one has had the full 200 hours, but several did take the 40 hour courseand the Division of Forestry course. Ivan McGhee, Fellsmere Fire Chief, reported one certified out of twenty-two volunteers. Howard Marcley, Vero Lakes Estates Fire Chief, stated that none of their volunteers are certified; they haven't been able to get into the college yet because they just got into the budget. They have 28 men and four took the 60 hour course. He noted that they do their own training on Saturdays and Sundays, but they only have one truck to train on. 5 JAN 3 0 1985 BOOK 9 FAU-C 723 _I JAIL 30 1985q59 IN. r[ a BOOKUl t 24 Commissioner Lyons asked if the different departments get together on training or if the training courses mentioned are done individually. Chief Arand informed the Commission that last year Sebastian sponsored one at their station and all the four station houses attended, plus some firemen from Vero and some from Micco. Mr. Fletcher reported that the Advisory Board told Vero Lakes Estates that before they got a truck, they wanted them to be trained, and he believed Sebastian trained ten of them in basic fire fighting. Commissioner Bird asked if there is any training that takes place between the South County Fire District paid firemen and the volunteers, and Chief Arand stated that it was just on-the-job training but emphasized that there is a mutual agreement about helping each other; they work well together and have not had any problems working with them over the years. Mr. Fletcher reported that the South County has issued a standing invitation for North County personnel to train at any of their training courses at any time, and Chief Arand confirmed that the volunteers can use the South County facilities at any time; they just have to call and let them know. Station Boundaries, Communications, Procedures, etc. Commissioner Bird asked if boundaries are established for each station to respond to within the _District, and Mr. Fletcher confirmed that each station has designated boundaries. Commissioner Scurlock commented that he apparently had been misinformed as he had been told there were no specific boundaries. Chief Arand noted that they did have a response when practically all departments were there; the fire was going pretty strong, and they called for mutual aid. Question arose as to who is in charge in such a situation, and Chief Arand stated that the Chief of the department for the area where the fire occurs is in charge. C.1 r � � Discussion continued as to boundaries and how this works out in relation to communications and calling 911. Mr. Fletcher believed that General Services Director Dean is acquainted with their communication system and commented that Mr. Dean is the one he would choose to be the liaison man as he has been very helpful in the past. Director Dean informed the Board that he has a plan the Advisory Board accepted and recommended, and they are trying to get the specifics together and come before the Commission in the next 30 days to ask permission to go out to bid for a package plan to update the system in the North County so that everybody can communicate with one another. This would run in conjunction with the new tower to give the North County their own repeater; they do not have one now. He explained that the problem is that without a repeater, when they are out in the field, it is only truck to truck or car to car communication, which is inadequate. The new plan will eliminate this problem. Administrator Wright noted that they are proposing a tower package that all the five or six departments will tie into, and Director Dean confirmed that North County will have a frequency they can share, and central dispatch, whoever it may be, will do the dispatching for the North County. Chief Arand stated that he had felt they were going to this new system in order to have their own 911 system in the North County and not have'to go through the one in South County. Director Dean noted that he did not address the 911 system in relation to the communications package he presented to the North County Distr&t. Commissioner Lyons pointed out that to have a 911 system, you need a 24 hour, seven -day -a -week dispatcher and a console, and Commissioner Scurlock stated that he was not interested in having two 911 systems for the county; this is one county. Discussion ensued at length and in detail as to how the communication system functions now in the North County; how 7 BOOK 9 FACE 7 �5 JAN 3 0 1995 JAN 3 0 1995 8001( people are contacted by beeper; response time; how cumbersome it is, the possibility of error, etc. Mr. Fletcher explained the steps whereby a fire call to 911 goes to the South County dispatcher, who relays it to the fire department whose area it is in. He felt that actually all the South County is doing is acting as the switchboard at this point. Mr. Fletcher agreed that there are some problems, and the 911 system is not perfect yet, but he felt it about 95% perfect. In further discussion, Administrator Wright emphasized that the North County needs the new communications package regardless of whether or not the 911 system is set up separately, and he felt that, in any event, all you are doing is relaying a message to a dispatcher and that you are not going to gain any time with a separate system. Mr. Mensing informed the Commission that he attends quite a few of the Advisory Committee meetings. He realized there are problems and agreed that there may be things the Board could inject that might be steps ahead, but felt the Board is out of place criticizing because the volunteers are a very dedicated hard-working group of people, each of whom are used to protecting their own turf. As to the 911 system, he could not understand why the North and South County do not contribute to the Sheriff's budget so that when this call comes to the Sheriff's Department, they handle it right there and you don't have to depend on another person and another step to have the information relayed to the proper fire department. He felt the North County, the Commission, and the Sheriff should get together on this. Commissioner Lyons again emphasized that this involves a system that requires first a 24 hour, seven -day -a -week dispatcher, and the second situation is that the County has a responsibility here; we must know that call is going to be answered and in a timely fashion. One reason this is handled the way it is now is that the 911 operator does not have time to find out whether or not this call has been answered by the Fire 8 Department. They, therefore, asked the South County to do the job because if there isn't a return "10-8" within a reasonable period of time, they are back on the air again until they get somebody. Commissioner Lyons continued that in time, when the North County District is organized the way they should be in the long run, then he would like to see a console in the North County, but right now he believed the present setup is a bit of a life preserver for the North County. Commissioner Lyons further wished to make it plain that this meeting is not a meeting aimed at criticism; it is a meeting aimed at finding out what our mutual problems are and how to solve them. Commissioner Bird concurred that the Board does recognize the volunteer's dedication and good work and the money they are saving by their voluntary efforts, but we all have a responsibility to provide the best fire protection to the North County area. Susie Wilson came before the Board and noted that she is a volunteer fireman in the North County, but she also would like to speak as an individual and a taxpayer. Even though the firemen are all volunteers and doing a top notch job to the best of their ability, she believed there should be some type of restrictions or qualifications, especially since there are some firemen who are retirees and may not be up to the health standards required to go out on a fire. Mrs. Wilson confirmed that each department has their own individual training procedure, but if they could get a qualified instructor to hold a meeting once a month at a different department each month, which all the departments could attend, she felt this would help unify the departments in their training. She also felt strongly that there should be an administrator over the entire North County District. Although she did not know the total amount of the District budget this year, she noted that the Fellsmere budget alone is about $34,000, as opposed to their original starting budget of $5,000, which she 9 JAI 3 0 1985 BOOK 59 FA -UE. 727 _I JAIL 3 Q 1985BooK P,:GE 798 felt points up the need for an administrator. Mrs. Wilson believed such an administrator could save his salary the first year. As to the the South County dispatcher, Mrs. Wilson stated there is a definite problem there. Many times the wrong address is given and they send the Roseland Department out and the fire is in Sebastian. She claimed that this happens several times a week. Administrator Wright expressed amazement that this could happen this often, which would be about 150 times a year, and we have never been informed of it. He stated if there is a problem such as that, they should call Emergency Management Director Steve Wells. Commissioner Lyons agreed that this is very important, and any such problem should be dealt with quickly. A gentleman in the audience stated that this is a 911 problem; he believed it is a sector problem and felt it has been dealt with. Mrs. Wilson agreed that this has not been happening as often lately. Chief Arand reported that this happened yesterday, and he called to find out why, and they said the Sheriff's Department gave them the wrong address. Discussion re Makeup of Advisory Board, Millage, etc. Mrs. Wilson next commented on the makeup of the North County Advisory Committee, noting that it consists mainly of members of the different fire departments. Since this is a separate taxing district, she felt possibly the Advisory Board should be made up of individuals who do not have a stake in it, i.e., citizens and taxpayers, and the Fire Chiefs should be there for input, but not to vote. Roseland Fire Chief McClain felt Mrs. -Wilson wanted to take a two-party situation where people can't communicate and make it a three -party problem. Commissioner Scurlock felt the membership of the Advisory Board was set up in the referendum creating the District, and Mr. Fletcher explained that the intent was to have a balance between 10 the taxpayers and the spenders of the money. It was felt because the volunteers are not in this for profit that the Chiefs would represent the money spending need and the president of the not-for-profit department was basically a citizen and would represent the taxpayer; the third party was to be an elected official or an unbiased individual. He did agree, however, that it seems there is more discussion from the fire department's point of view than the taxpayers. Commissioner Scurlock inquired what the District's major objection is to a paid Administrator. Chief Arand noted that when the North County District was formed, it was told it would get 3 mills to run the District. That was fine, but they never did get 3 mills and at that time they had three departments. Now they have four departments and are going to five. Commissioner Scurlock pointed out that the Commission recommended the North County District go to referendum and adopt a higher millage, but the North County said absolutely no - if we put in three mills, we will spend it and have paid people, etc., Commissioner Scurlock pointed out that voting in a higher millage cap does not mean that you have to use it. .003. Chief Arand stated that they went for .5 and all they get is OMB Director Barton noted that is incorrect. The District does levy .5 mills every year; although one year it was .43 when we used the rollback. The one-half mill levy creates approximately $150,000. Commissioner Scurlock felt that is part of the problem; you can't run the District on $150,000. OMB Barton agreed, noting that the budget used to be in four segments, and now it is five, plus there is a general account to pay the expenses common to all, i.e., insurance, Tax Collector and Property Appraiser's fees, etc. Chief Arand felt a coordinator or administrator as discussed, would require a salary of about $50,000 a year and 11 JAN 3 0 1985 BOOK v FACE 129 JAN 3 0 1985 BOOK 50 'FADE/30 wished to know if the County Commission would put up this money. It was pointed out that it is the District's expense. Chief Arand noted that they can only raise their budget just so much, and Commissioner Scurlock pointed out that by referendum anything in the original setup of the District can be amended - millage, membership, etc. Chief Arand argued that they can't ask the people for another raise; they were told it would be just once, and he didn't want to lie to them. Chief McClain commented that since he came to the meeting, he has heard a lot about the problems of Vero Lakes Estates Department, but he sits on the Advisory Board and this is the first he has heard of their problems regarding fill, etc. He felt that if this had been brought to the Advisory Board, the Board would want to work with them. Mr. Fletcher believed that it has not been firmed up as yet that everything should go through the Advisory Board, but Chief McClain informed him that this was decided at the last meeting, when Mr. Fletcher was absent. Jerry Peeler, president of the Vero Lakes Estates Department, clarified that they were not intentionally trying to go around the Advisory Board or do anything behind anyone's back. He had occasion to ask Commission Scurlock a question about some other matter, and felt at the same time he might as well ask about the fill dirt. Chief Howard Marcley did not see where the North County Advisory Board has anything to do with the Vero Lakes Estates fire house since the Vero Lakes group are building the station themselves. Roseland Chief McClain felt that is part of the communications problem. The Commission is asking them to help build the Vero Lakes building with the District's money, but all the other departments raised their own money and built their own stations. 12 Commissioner Scurlock believed this is where the crux of the problem lies. Each department very naturally has a great pride in their own department, but this Commission is in a different situation. Our responsibility is simply one thing - protection of the public over the whole North County. He noted that the departments have severe budget constraints and they each fight to get their fair share, and the fact is that there simply isn't enough to go around. Commissioner Scurlock felt when you look to the future, Sebastian well may become the largest municipality in the county, and he, therefore, believed we must sell the public and educate them in order to prevent being faced with some large catastrophe in the future that we cannot handle. As one Commissioner, he stated that he felt that he has to address this even if he has to go against what the Advisory Committee advises. Chief Arand noted that it is going to be difficult to sell the North County people on the difference between $150,000 and three million, which is the South County budget, but it was pointed out that such an amount is not needed at this time and also noted that the South County grew gradually also. Chief Arand pointed out that the County has a contingency fund, but Commissioner Scurlock emphasized that the County will not subsidize the North County Fire District. Commissioner Wodtke felt the voters will have to make a determination as to what level of service they want. Another problem is the legal aspect of spending the money on a station that is not owned by the District. It appears the volunteers have determined the stations are going to stay privately owned, and if that's the decision, then they are going to have to raise their own local dollars to add on or repair. He pointed out that if the proposed Barber Avenue station should decide to go to the County, it possibly could end up spending all the District's money. Mr. Fletcher reported that the Barber Street station will be owned by the City of Sebastian. 13 JAN 3 0 1985 BOOK 59 FA,UE.731 � J -I A O 1985 BOOK5 9F't;CE 0' Commissioner Scurlock continued to stress that the people should be educated and given a chance to vote, but Mr. Fletcher pointed out that the North County people have a basic distrust of government in general and won't even vote to pay their Mayor a full-time salary. Discussion re Present Administrative Procedures Administrator Wright asked for direction as to what exactly the Board wished staff to continue to do administratively for the District. He requested the OMB Director to report just what staff is doing now. OMB Director Barton explained that the District is an independent district and under the Statute audit requirements, we have a certain amount of accountability we must control; we have exercised that control and caused some upset in the District by imposing our operating requirements re purchasing, etc., on the District either through the Budget Office of the Finance - Department. This was handled this way from the standpoint that the Board of County Commissioners is the entity that is ultimately responsible to the state. Administrator Wright noted that we don't enjoy that responsibility, but it is just like any other department the Board is accountable for - Road & Bridge, etc. We check drivers' licenses once a year for all employees driving county vehicles, (this is especially important for insurance purposes, and we are trying to keep our insurance premiums down) keep track of inventory, etc. Commissioner Wodtke inquired if this has caused any problems in the District, and Chief Arand stated that they had always been in the habit of paying their bills when they were due, which doesn't seem to be the case with the County. Administrator Wright noted that the Clerk of Courts is responsible for paying the bills, and the Finance Department pays them when they get here and are reconciled. 14 M OMB Director Barton informed those present that the Finance Department pays bills three times a month now, and they shortly are going to be paying bills weekly. If a bill is sent down here and misses the cut off, it is necessary to hold it until the next bill paying day. He pointed out that if the fire departments get their bills the first of the month and then takes them to their Board for approval, it probably by then is about the 15th of the month. If they miss that cut off date and are delayed until about the 28th of the month, the vendor doesn't receive the payment in time to show the credit on the next month's bill. Director Barton further explained that the auditors were unwilling to go directly to four different fire department and go through the records of each, and that is why the procedure was set up so this all goes through the County. Discussion continued at length regarding bill paying procedures, the fact that the bills must be in proper order, signed off on, etc., and Administrator Wright emphasized that if the departments have a complaint, they should make it known and come down here and get something done about it. Chairman Bowman requested that the Fire Chiefs be sent a memo explaining these procedures. Jerry Peeler of the Vero Lakes Estates Department once again brought up their need for fill and noted that a canal was recently cleaned out and there is dirt just lying there blocking the road. He wished to know if they could scoop the dirt up at their expense and make use of it. It was noted that this very probably belongs to the Drainage District, and he should contact John Amos in this regard. OMB Director Barton stated that he would like to meet with the people involved with purchasing after the meeting adjourns. Commissioner Lyons felt the Board would be interested in receiving a comment from the Advisory Board as to whether or not they want to set up District standards as to who rides the firetrucks. 15 JAN 3 0 1995 BOOK 9 F,cE733 I JAN 3 0 1995 BOOK 59, PnE 734 Chairman Bowman believed the Advisory Committee needs to work up a five year plan. Grover Fletcher wished to thank Director "Sonny" Dean, Director Barton, and staff for the help they have always been. Commissioner Scurlock felt strongly that the Board and the Advisory Committee need to sit down and talk on a regular basis. He also felt that Director Dean and Director Barton should continue to attend the Advisory Committee meetings for an indefinite time. The Board agreed. There being no further business, on Motion made, duly seconded and carried, the Board unanimously adjourned at 5:55 o'clock P.M. ATTEST: 1 t -CJ Clerk -I