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HomeMy WebLinkAbout3/18/1987The Board of County Commissioners of Indian River County, Florida, met in SpecialSessionat a Joint Meeting with the Vero Beach City Council at the County Commission Chambers, 1840 25th Street, Vero Beach, Florida, on Tuesday, March 18, 1987, at 7:00 o'clock P.M. Present were Don C. Scurlock, Jr., Chairman; Margaret C. Bowman, Vice Chairman; Richard N. Bird; Carolyn K. Eggert; and Gary C. Wheeler. Also present were Charles P. Balczun, County Administrator; Charles P. Vitunac, Attorney to the Board of County Commissioners; and Virginia Hargreaves, Deputy Clerk. Members of the Vero Beach City Council present were John Acor, Mayor; Hoyt Howard; Kenneth Macht; Michael Wodtke; and Warren Winchester. Also present were City Manager John Little and City Attorney Terry O'Brien. Chairman Scurlock called the meeting to order and led the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag. Chairman Scurlock welcomed everyone to the workshop with the City of Vero Beach, which he believed will be the first of many. He wished to go over tonight's Agenda as there have been some modifications. He further advised that he concurs with the City Council in regard to setting a time frame for the meeting to end at 9:00 P.M. Those items we have not finished discussing will be carried over to a future meeting. Chairman Scurlock then advised that a couple of items regarding the franchise fee have been deleted as this already has been covered by ordinance by the City and the County. Two items have been added under G. Miscellaneous - (3.) Redevelopment of the Downtown - 1(t Sales Tax and (4.) Building Department. The last is an item that definitely needs to be discussed tonight. BOOL( MAR 18 1987 MAR 18 1987 1 BOOK The Chairman announced that there is an item which is not on the agenda, but the Vista Harbor property owners (of whom there are quite a few in the audience) have a great concern about the extension of Indian River Boulevard north and he would like to address this first very briefly. He advised those present that the County has been conducting neighborhood workshops with the Country Club Pointe residents who were extremely concerned about drainage when the first go -round re the northerly extension of the Boulevard took place. The County has given direction to staff to work with the residents not only on drainage and make certain we get enough bridges or culverts, but also, to make sure this project will be environmentally safe, the Commission has given staff direction to acquire all the environmentally sensitive land there as we feel it should be protected for the public and it is not really great.buildable property. The concern of the Vista Harbor people is the ingress and egress to their property, and this is a significant concern to the Commission also. The Chairman stated that the Board will be happy to listen to the Property Owners Association representa- tive, but, rather than getting into a long dialogue tonight, would like their specific concerns expressed, and then we can have Public Works Director Jim Davis and our engineers schedule a meeting with them to address these concerns. He wished to assure those present that the final design has not been done, safety is a factor of concern to everyone, and their input is very timely. Fred Langstaff, 2800 Indian River Boulevard, Vista Harbor, spoke representing the property owners and confirmed that their primary concern is their entrance. There are 420 residents in Vista Harbor; there will be a serious problem getting in and out onto the Boulevard; and they very much would like to have a meeting with Mr. Davis at their clubhouse. He thanked the Chairman for the opportunity to be heard, and the Vista Harbor property owners thereupon left the meeting. Chairman Scurlock welcomed the members of the Vero Beach City Council and stated that he felt the idea of the City and County meeting more frequently to discuss common. problems is an excellent one. He believed our relationship is one of trust and respect and hoped that it will continue. Chairman Scurlock informed those present that one item that will not be discussed tonight is the South County Fire District as it has not been advertised so that the Commission can sit as the South County Fire Board. He suggested that Administrator Balczun and City Manager Little discuss this and arrange for it to be advertised as he felt we could have one session devoted entirely to that subject. Chairman Scurlock advised that at this point, he would proceed to address the agendaed items and expressed the hope that we can go through them as briefly as possible. 3A. AIRPORT (Tall Structures, noise levels, land use >; zoning) Chairman Scurlock believed in general the Commission's position is that we do want to have transition zones; we don't want to have tall buildings in flight paths; and this should be a cooperative effort. City Manager Little explained that he simply was requested by the FAA to ask both Planning Departments if they would recognize the imaginary surfaces lines in the flight patterns and the clear zones, and the noise problems, and when processing zonings, site plan approval, etc., be sure they understood all those parameters to protect the Airport as much as possible from suits over noise abatement, etc. County Planning & Development Director Keating advised that the county and city staff have been working on this from a planning standpoint. He referred to the map and pointed out piaces in the unincorporated area where there are potential noise conflicts - the area near Walker and 43rd Avenue, an area on MAR 18 1987 3 BOOK `� ; ",,; y L S AR 8 '1�61 BooK7 l0 1L1- North U.S.I just north of the city limits and east of U.S.I, and also an area just north of the Airport along South Gifford Road. There was no further direction to staff. 3B. PLANNING (1.) Land Use and Zoning in vicinity of political subdivision oounaa r i e s , i _e . , _a t 17th St. .. K--along`RFU—S_.Mw _TT --�— Chairman Scurlock realized that the City's Planning & Zoning Commission nixed The Promenade while ours approved it, but wondered why the City addressed this first when that property was not even annexed into the City as yet. City Manager Little advised that staff is about to bring an ordinance before the City Council that will say that they will no longer make any studies or do any work involved in site plan analysis until a property is annexed. They did this at first just to be nice, but it is getting out of hand and they would like to be sure that both Planning Departments work together in regard to any rezoning that takes place by political boundaries whether there is annexation involved or not. Chairman Scurlock noted that the hearing re the proposed development at 17th St. and Indian River Blvd. has not yet come to the County Commission so he did not want to review it at this -time. He felt the key is to work together to make it compatible. City Manager Little brought up the boundaries along North U.S.I where the City limits run 200' to the east of U.S.I. He did not believe the limits follow any particular street or section line, and it would seem in the dim past they just cut a 200' swath to take in the commercial frontage on U.S.I as it seemed a nice idea for a tax base at the time. Mayor Acor noted that the problems they are getting into is that some parcels are partly in the city and partly in the county, and City Manager Little agreed they have a gentleman 4 Chairman Scurlock believed the County's position is just that the area ought to be under one jurisdiction or the other, and he wished to know if there were any objections to pursuing the City annexing this area. Commissioner Bowman suggested that it be pursued with the land owners up there to see what they want. Commissioner Bird stated he had no objection and felt the City should have the first shot at it. City Manager Little suggested we ask the two Planning staffs to get together and make a recommendation as to what a reasonable annexation area and boundaries would be and then talk to the property owners. ON MOTION by Commissioner Eggert, SECONDED by Com- missioner Wheeler, the Board unanimously directed the County Planning staff to work with the City Planning staff and proceed as suggested by City Manager Little. ON MOTION by Mayor Acor, SECONDED by Councilman Howard, the City Council unanimously directed the City Plan- ning staff to work with the County Planning staff and proceed as suggested by City Manager Little. (2.) Annexation in General Chairman Scurlock noted that he had a group in today from The Moorings readdressing the issue of annexation. He believed the Commission in the past has been receptive to squaring off areas where services can be delivered on an economical basis, and he felt that makes good sense; however, he believed annexation 5 BOOP( 6 7 u�r ���� MAR 18 1987 MAR 18 '9987 BOOK 6 7 °.J laws have changed to some extent where our piece of property is not included in the vote. He further felt there is an area between the City and Indian River Shores that is looking to be annexed into the Shores. He believed that would be more efficient as far as police protection is concerned, but felt fire control is a moot point. He, for one, did not have any objection to pursuing this in the normal legal manner. The Board members generally agreed. City Manager Little advised that he had about a four hour meeting with the Moorings group earlier in the week and informed them that he would not spend any staff effort on this issue without Council approval. They indicated that he should hold off putting this on the City agenda a bit as they wanted to think a little further. Commissioner Eggert expressed concern that we don't get into either annexations or rezonings in the summer when so many people are out of the state. Chairman Scurlock believed another side issue that needs to be addressed relating to possible annexation is Round Island Park. City Manager Little advised that the City staff would prefer if the County would take a position as to what they would like to be done re the park since it is the County's park and is in their area of responsibility and jurisdiction at this time. If their recommendation sounds good, then staff will pass it on to the Council for consideration. Chairman Scurlock suggested that the Commission ask the Recreation Advisory Committee to come.up with a recommendation re Round Island Park. ON MOTION by Commissioner Eggert, SECONDED by Com- missioner Wheeler, the Board unanimously requested the Recreation Advisory Committee to come up with a recommendation as suggested above. 6 Commissioner Bird inquired what exactly the Board wished the Committee to address? Chairman Scurlock noted that if the City should annex all the way down to the County line on the barrier island, for instance, we would run into the question of who enforces laws within Round Island Park, who maintains it, to what level, do we want to continue to operate it or enter into an agreement, etc. - all those options. Commissioner Bird wished to know what the status of the development of The Promenade is in the City and in the County. County Planning Director Keating explained that this involves a request to the County for a Comprehensive Plan amend- ment to Commercial and also a concurrent rezoning from RM -10 to Commercial, and it is a long drawn out process. Chairman Scurlock inquired if this matter has been withdrawn from the City, and City Attorney O'Brien explained that this would require the same type action by the City, but as of now, it is in limbo tabled at the request of the applicant. Discussion ensued at length re annexation in general, and City Councilman Howard felt the Council should not take action on any property that is not within the City. Mayor Acor believed in the future they really need to go by state guidelines, which mandate that you don't do a Comprehensive Plan change based on site plans. He did not want to have grandi- ose "Marriot -type pictures" continually dangled before them. Chairman Scurlock agreed, noting that the County tries not to get involved with that also. He emphasized what he is mainly against is having a developer "whip -saw" a project back and forth pitting the City and the County against each other. M AR o `667 3C. WATER AND WASTEWATER p BOOK 67 u�'�.9 =;E � (1.) Service Territory Boundaries County Utilities Director Terry Pinto advised that County and City staff have met several times and had the consultant take a look at what squaring off should be done in the area of wastewater. He advised they have just about worked this out, and are down to only about three areas where he felt there is a need for some further discussion. Director Pinto felt this should continue to be discussed on the staff level between City Manager Little and himself and then brought back for action. City Manager Little explained that what is involved here goes back to the years when the county did not have either a water or wastewater system. At that time when people living in various areas outside the city expressed a need for a line, a line was just run down the street with the result that there are little lines spiked out all over and a situation that is no longer livable. Staff is just trying to find out what is the most economical way to cut the pie so that everybody benefits. Chairman Scurlock agreed but noted that. the only complica- tion is that we can't afford to shed some of that customer base right now because we are so new in this business. Utilities Director Pinto concurred that there still were a few little things to be worked out, but he was optimistic that even those areas can be worked out. There is one area where a large transmission line would have to be built if the City does not see fit or can't turn that line over to us. City Manager Little did not share Director Pinto's optimism about that particular line as the City has spent money to put in the line that is there and they are not apt to give it to the county and then spend money to put it in for the second time. He noted if an agreement about it cannot be reached at staff level, he felt this should be presented to the various bodies and say we are all done except for thus and so. 8 Director Pinto felt it can be worked out because it is possible -the County may not need that line, and City Manager Little agreed that could resolve the problem. (2.) Expansion of Wastewater_ Treatment Plant and (3.) Expansion of Water Treatment Plant Chairman Scurlock stated that he has some very specific thoughts on this subject. He has read the City's study which recommends a cost of almost 16 million dollars for expansion of their facility, but it does not include getting the effluent out of the river nor does it include aeration basins. He really felt there needs to be a commitment by the City to getting the effluent out of the river. We are committed to this as a county. None of our effluent is going into the river, and we are going to re -use on golf courses, possibly sod farms, etc. Since a distribution system for the effluent would be an additional 15 million, or a total of over 30 million to expand the plant and take care of the effluent, Chairman Scurlock honestly felt the City should give serious consideration to analyzing the cost of doing away with the existing plant completely and look at the feasability of having a west/southwest plant closer to where effluent disposal can take place without going into the river. He further pointed out that the property the plant is on now is an extremely valuable piece of property, which also is a gateway to our beaches and not an attractive one. He strongly suggested that we should work together to take a quick look at the alternatives. Mayor Acor agreed there are alternatives, and at one or two of the next several Council meetings, this will be on their agenda. Councilman Macht believed the entire City Council supports the idea of keeping the effluent out of the river and also believed the time has come when they may not have the option to consider alternatives as this will be mandated. Councilman Macht MAR 18 198-7 9 BOOK �9 F' .. 69 0 a 1"'J e BOOK 6 � �,;..;F. five believed the state now considers wastewater as a renewable resource, and we must start thinking of it in those terms. Chairman Scurlock discussed the possibility of a joint venture to develop a facility and to develop our resources. City Manager Little commented that he did not agree with anything he has heard here tonight on either side. He did not believe the numbers are intended to add up as Chairman Scurlock has added them. There are two ways to get the effluent out of the river that don't cost anywhere near that much, and he would suggest that the two staffs meet with the consultant who prepared these reports. Chairman Scurlock asked if that meant that the City Manager was not accepting the City's own study. City Manager Little noted that he himself has been in the utilities business a long time, and he believed there are some things that need to be discussed and improved upon. He stated that he would like to include Utilities Director Pinto in those discussions, go over this report in all of its nuances, and then come back to both parties with a recap. Chairman Scurlock believed the main goal is to get the discharge out of the river, and City Manager Little believed all this can be accomplished and much more economically without getting involved in a today's cost facility. Councilman Howard commented that what bothers him is that people think you can just go down there and cut that water off immediately, and then those people complain if it backs up in their bathrooms. Councilman Howard felt we should start where the problem is, and he stated emphatically that the pollution of the Indian River is not caused by their sewer plant. Mayor Acor and Councilman Macht agreed that the City plant is well run, and the Mayor felt that part of what -Councilman Howard is saying is that there are a lot more things polluting the river than just the sewer plant, i.e., runoff from the irrigation canals, etc. - 10 Chairman Scurlock felt there is no question about that. Utilities Director Pinto wished to explain the County's situation and where the City fits in. The County has embarked on expansion of its wastewater master plan so we can go up into the North County and the West County. The missing link is.the South County, and we are not sure how to do that. Either the County will have to build a treatment plant in the South County, buy the General Development Corporation plant, or do something jointly with the City. Director Pinto felt that the argument of whether or not the City plant is polluting the river is relatively unimportant. What is important is the reuse of wastewater that could be very good water because when that hits the river, it is lost forever. Director Pinto confirmed that the County has embarked on total use of all of our effluent. Chairman Scurlock brought up water and asked if there is any desire to pursue the water resource issue jointly. He noted that the County is in the process of expanding and will be coming right behind the North County wastewater plant with a North County water program. City Manager Little requested that it be borne in mind that the City has this study, and he would like both City and County staff to sit down with the consultant and talk about it. He reported that a cursory examination would indicate to the City that if their efforts to clean up some of the trichlorethylene problems in the Airport wellfield are successful and if their efforts to tap the deep aquifer to get a better quality water are successful, they can operate their .present plant at 15 million gallons a day. With the non -potable water efforts that are going on in John's Island and if the County goes ahead with the North treatment plant and relieves the City of that flow, he believed they would not need to expand their water treatment plant until well out into the 1990's. City Manager Little then discussed alternatives for handling effluent either by taking an effluent pipe south down Indian s dAR 1 11 ��� BOOK F' r U C MAR 1 � BOOK River Boulevard and discharging by sheet flow into a managed wetlands area south of Fairlane Harbor or, when North Indian River Boulevard becomes a reality, go up that right-of-way to Barber Avenue where we can get easily into the north Airport aquifer, put in some shallow sand bottom lakes to create recharge lagoons, and put the effluent into that area as a recharge. This is being done in some states right now. Discussion continued re what would be required to do this, and further comment was made as to the City's study apparently being disappointing. Councilman Macht believed the report seemed to deprecate the value of percolation ponds, but City Manager Little felt there may be some rethinking on this. Chairman Scurlock commented that he believed he is hearing that the City is not particularly interested in joining with the County on water and wastewater resource at this time and that the County can pretty much count them out of our plans. He stressed that we are pursuing our plan aggressively and we need to give our consultant's direction. Commissioner Bird asked if the intent of our plan for a North County water plant is to pick up the Gifford system and perhaps the Hospital system, or would they remain a customer of the City. Utilities Director Pinto advised that our master plan indicates we will end up with a 14 million gpd plant in South County and eventually have a 20 million gpd plant in the North County. We are trying to maximize the capacity of the South County plant to make it more cost effective. The plan is to extend the line north, looping it around Gifford up to Grand Harbor, and come back and service all the way down into the Hospital area. When we get near maximum capacity in the South County, we then will spin off with the North County plant, shed the North County load and the South County growth will take care of what capacity is Left there. We already have entered into a contract with Fellsmere and Sebastian. The missing link is the 12 City of Vero Beach, and if they do not wish to participate, we can instruct our consultants to work around them. Chairman Scurlock suggested that in the long range planning we at least include the capability of an intertie with Vero Beach in the event a problem should arise in either system, and Director Pinto advised that ability is already there. Commissioner Bird believed there was talk at one time about the possibility of taking effluent over the 17th Street bridge to The Moorings for golf course irrigation. City Manager Little agreed there was, and they were going to study that, but they have not worked out with the DER exactly what they would have to do to put effluent on the golf courses. Utilities Director Pinto explained that to be able to use effluent on the golf course, you have to have the ability to store it at least 72 hours in case of heavy rainfall. In our North Gifford plant, we have proven to the DER that if you do your modeling including the rain, you can irrigate rain or shine. Chairman Scurlock felt if the Council will establish their policy and prepare a statement as to whether they will partici- pate or not, then we can get on with our business. Councilman Macht felt this is too important a matter to act on quickly and asked if it would be agreeable to both bodies to hold a session devoted entirely to this subject. Chairman Scurlock stated that he, as one Commissioner, did not want to get involved in pushing policy on the City Council. Obviously he and City Manager Little each have their own views on this. City Manager Little again stressed that the City has facili- ties that were built with low cost labor, low cost materials, and they have a very low embedded debt cost. He personally did not feel it would make economic sense to go to a countywide water and sewer authority unless the City had some insurmountable needs, and he did not feel that they do. QR 1 l 7 1 3 BOOK � 6 � �E 61 MAR 18 1987 Chairman Scurlock did not see how Mr. Little can say that when the City has already lost some wells and had to go to a stripping process in the wellfield. Also, that plant will not last forever. City Manager Little stated emphatically that none of their problems are that difficult to deal with. He pointed out that the City wastewater plant was built in 1975; the last expansion of the water plant was only 4 or 5 years ago; and you don't start retiring things that cost millions of dollars and have a 30-40 year life expectancy in a 4 or 5 year period. Commissioner Eggert noted that Councilman Macht suggested that we need a workshop on this subject, and she did agree. Commissioner Bird believed we have pretty well outlined our intended course with or without the City. He felt the City should work with their staff to decide what is in their best interests, and then when they have that worked out, get back to us, hopefully as soon as possible. Chairman Scurlock commented that this was only put on the agenda because he got the impression policy had not been set. (4_) Malfunction of Wholesale Billing Meter Wastewater, 6th Ave. Utilities Director Pinto explained that the previous meter was malfunctioning and apparently had done so from the day it was put in. To make things easier in trying to resolve what should be done, we hired the City Engineers to develop a new metering system. This was done, and it was intentionally installed to be a temporary system, but not only is the meter itself not working, it is causing a severe problem back in our force main system. We now have our engineers running a computer model to see how we can alleviate the problem, but that analysis has.not been completed. City Manager Little believed that at this point we now are back to billing on water meter readings, and this was confirmed by Director Pinto. 14 (5.) Master Agreementtoconsolidate &_update all previous agreements Chairman Scurlock believed this is contingent on some of the policy decisions that have to be made. County Attorney Vitunac concurred. He informed the Board that this agreement started about a year ago, but was overtaken by the franchise agreements recently entered into. It would not be appropriate to move further ahead on this until the work on squaring off service areas can be finalized and some other agreements are made. This does not require any action tonight. (6.) Effluent & Sludge Disposal and (7.) Handling of Septage aseptic tank pumping] Director Pinto advised that the County had a study done for septage and grease and included sludge. In this study we included the maximum capacity we thought would come from the City treatment plant as well as the septage that will come out of the City from the areas that are not sewered. Staff is anticipating coming to the Commission to build a facility mid -county, probably with the Gifford sub -regional plant, and we have discussed a method of payment for the use of that facility that anticipates sludge coming from the City plant. If the City decided not to do that, however, it would not change our plans or the size of the facility. All our studies are available to the City. City Manager Little noted that one of the problems with odor control at the City plant is the sludge drying beds; so, he believed the City very likely would be interested in the County's proposed facility. (8.) Revise wholesale rate schedules to include_ proper capacity and_corrvnod i ty cF- rges City Manager Little did not believe there is anything seriously wrong with this right now, and whether they do anything else or not would depend on whether any of us were going to increase flows from present levels and in what direction. MAR 1 198 15 BOOK ;'' E ffl ��iAR 1 8 1987 BOOK �' `r' G 6`7 (9.) Seminole Shores and St. Christopher Beach water and sewer —roETems—ana—TTb-T—An=Ters Cove—sewer—problem It was indicated that these matters have been resolved. (11.) City to provide laboratory services to County—on a fully costea—Eases. City Manager Little advised that the lab is up and running - they have the equipment and graduate chemists aboard, and the only problem is that they have a lot of work to do to achieve EPA certification. They simply have to run long enough to prove to the EPA they know what they are doing, and when they obtain that certification, they will be one of the very few labs in Florida to have it. The meeting was recessed briefly at 8:20 P.M., and recon- vened at 8:30 with all County Commission and City Council members present. The Chairman advised it will not be possible to address all items on the agenda tonight, but we will take as many as we can and still leave time to discuss the Building Department. D. RECREATION (1.) Beach Renourishment Mayor Acor believed this issue has been hashed over for a long time, and he did not think anything will happen until either the federal or state government makes an appropriation for us. It appears the City will be in litigation over the new Chapter 75 and the amendment to allow geotextile bags. As with any new idea or ordinance, this will be challenged. The Mayor noted that the City Council feels it is a good ordinance and believes they have the state DNR, etc., behind them on it. Discussion ensued, and Councilman Howard advised that they will be asking the Tri -County Council to push for legislation to help us try to get a 15 million dollar appropriation instead of the 5 million. 16 r r r City Manager Little inquired if there is any news from. Washington regarding funding appropriations. ChairmanScurlock reported that he and Commissioner Bird just got back from Washington and you cannot get answers. He personally did not feel we can afford to keep waiting for the day when the federal government and state will hand out the funds, and believed if we ever are going to do anything for the beaches, it should be in theareaof beach management rather than beach renourishment. He felt we need to put more pressure on our consulting engineers to come up with that plan, have the City and County agree on it, find a funding mechanism, and take it to the voters. The Chairman did not hold great hopes that we are going to get big bucks. Mayor Acor was more optimistic about receiving money from the state than from the federal government. Commissioner Wheeler noted that we should be getting a report on beach management from Cubit Engineering within a few weeks. He advised that it seems our chances are, better of having the state participate at a greater level to put a feeder beach in at Sebastian and let the sand wash south. He agreed that depending who you talk to at the federal level, one says it is likely and another says it isn't, and he believed if we are going to do anything, it ultimately will be determined by a countywide referendum to see what the people want to do and if they want to spend the money. (2.) Recreation_ Programs_ and joint_fundin9l_ Commissioner Bird noted that Director "Tommy" Thomas, who has been our lead man in this field, is retiring soon, and he believed this has created an opportunity to recommend taking action at budgettime to look towards the creation of the position of Recreation Director for the unincorporated area of the county. This person then would have the expertise to work toward consoli- dating the recreation that is presently fragmented in the 17 BOOK. MAR 1 BOOKg unincorporated area around the city to bring it together into a better functioning system and also work with the City Recreation Director on cooperative efforts to share programs, facilities, etc. Commissioner Bird believed this would be a giant step toward countywide recreation. He noted that we were way behind the City at one time and still are, but we are starting to catch up, i.e., with our new 2.5 million golf course, the proposed acquisition of property for a large park facility to serve the whole South County area, etc. He believed we still have an obligation to continue to participate in the City programs financially until we are on a level where we can shed more of their recreation burden. Chairman Scurlock concurred with pursuing a countywide recreation, and commented that he also keeps hearing that Pat Callahan should be the director of it. He noted that Mrs. Callahan has done an outstanding job in the recreation field; we are pleased with the service she has given; and hopefully, if we ever get a joint program and system organized, she will be the one running it. E. PUBLIC WORKS (1.) Library Commissioner Eggert had just one point she wished to bring up re the library. She advised that among the parcels the Library Committee is looking at, one which is very high on the list is a parcel of approximately 5 acres on Indian River Boulevard south of the new Postal Distribution Center. She understands that this parcel isn't currently surplussed and stressed that the Committee will need to know if the Citywould be willing to sell that parcel fora -library. City Manager Little confirmed that the City has a five acre tract In the location described by Commissioner Eggert that has 18 E71 never been declared surplus, and from staff's point of view, the City has no use for that particular parcel. Mayor Acor emphasized that is staff speaking, and this will have to come before the Council. Commissioner Eggert advised that the Committee is continuing to look at various parcels and will continue to, but June 1st is their target date and they don't want to continue looking at a parcel they have no prayer of getting. Chairman Scurlock had another possible alternative to consider for a library site as discussed in the next item. G. MISCELLANEOUS (3.) Redevelopment of Downtown - 1� Sales Tax Chairman Scurlock commented that he recently attended a meeting with the Governor who spoke on Sales Tax. If we can get the 1� option, he stated that he had an extreme desire to pursue new court facilities for the downtown area and also would like to keep open the option for a potential of locating a library on the same campus. This would be an opportunity to do a lot for redevelopment of that area, and he felt we probably could spend a whole meeting on this topic. He just asked that the Library Committee not exclude that possibility. Commissioner Eggert assured him that they are not excluding any option. City Manager Little advised that he had talked with a private consortium that might be interested in a redevelopment activity downtown. Their position was that, with the size community we have, in order for private enterprise to be able to pick up the ball, there needs to be a nucleus in the downtown, and there has to be a government commitment to put one or two major facilities in that area. MAR 18 981 19 600K �� t640 ,,_. LIAR I ��87 BOOK 67 FnJC w 641 Chairman Scurlock concurred and believed with elevated parking, new criminal justice facilities, and possibly the library, you could develop a campus that would be the nucleus because just some little merchants putting up a new facade cannot accomplish a successful redevelopment on their own. (4_)_Building_Department City Manager Little reviewed the history of the situation, noting that we originally had a City/County Building which we jointly funded and then decided it should stand on its own and made it an enterprise department. It became very obvious that more of the growth was going to take place in the county because the city was building out; so, the City and County agreed to call it a County/City Building Department and move it to County quarters. Mr. Little did feel that was a good move, but noted that the City had some reservations at that time and wrote in the agreement the restrictions that now are being contemplated to be violated. It is the City staff's position that the City and County should decide whether that agreement should be amended, and without an amendment, things should stay the way they are. Chairman Scurlock noted that the County has a new Adminis- trator who has been on board only about six months, and we now are beginning to see some of his personalized style of management. The Chairman then pointed out that Item 7 of the said Agreement states that "The parties agree the existing internal organizational structure of the Department be maintained until proven ineffective through practice." He noted that he is not blaming any one department, but we have seen a lack of coordination and we need to get our act together in regard to the process that revolves around Planning, Zoning, Environmental Health, Building, etc. The Chairman stressed that the proposed change was totally Mr. Balczun's idea; it simply resulted from the Commission saying we want a streamlined process and want the public to be able to pull a building permit in a timely fashion. -20 He believed there has-been some reaction due to who is heading departments and peoples personalities. The City Manager stated that as far as his office is concerned all that is not a problem. He simply felt the Agreement should be amended because it requires the Building Department to be a peer department with its Director reporting directly to the County Administrator. He pointed out that this same idea was expressed when the Building Department first moved and the City Council didn't like it, and then it came up again a year ago, but never got to this level. County Administrator Balczun had no difficulty with formally amending the agreement but he pointed out that Item 1 says "The Department shall be vested with all the rights, obligations, privileges and benefits of the existing County departments and will rank equally with its peer departments in the organizational structure." He felt that prior to two weeks ago the Building Department theoretically was in a somewhat elevated position in comparison to all other departments and had virtually division status, which was in clear contravention of the agreement, and with the change in structure, he believed we now conform to that requirement. The Administrator stressed that we have not diminished the authority of either the Chief Building Official or the Building Department, and he really did not feel what we did was material with respect to the contract. If you want to increase efficiency, you either change the organization or change the people; he chose to change the organization and give the people a chance. City Manager Little advised that after conferring with the Mayor, they feel the two attorneys should render a legal opinion that the agreement has not been violated. If it has not been violated, it doesn't need to be amended. Councilman Macht asked if the statement in Item 7 in regard to the structure of the Department being maintained until proven 'BAR 1 1987 21 ` BOOK 1 w,F. K BOOK I f.., �; . . ineffective doesn't really give the latitude to whoever adminis- trates to make the organizational changes. City Manager Little explained that Item 7 was intended to deal with the internal structure and staff of the department itself. It actually dealt with job security guarantees for the employees in that department, and that's all it meant. It did not mean that department to be a subset of another department. Chairman Scurlock asked County Attorney Vitunac's opinion of the meaning of the agreement. Attorney Vitunac noted that this puts him in a difficult position as the agreement was written when he was City Attorney and he signed it for legal sufficiency. He did agree with City Manager Little that the intent was to protect a group of employees who were being transferred from the City to the County. The City, in essence, said you are not going to take people with pensions and seniority rights and then be able to fire them in three weeks. Now, however, three or four years have gone by, and if he is being asked whether the County can get around that agreement legally, he would say absolutely they can and also can make Bob Keating head of the City/County Building Department and make Ester Rymer his assistant, if they wish. But Attorney Vitunac felt all of that is not the real question, but whether the City is happy with the organization proposed by the Administrator now, which is the Building Department will have a separate fund of money from the City activities and he believed the Administrator has said if there is any City activity, Ester always has the right to report directly to him and then back to the City if they are concerned. Attorney Vitunac emphasized that Administrator Balczun was hired by the County to make changes in the organization, not "anti -Ester" he would hope, but to increase productivity and do it cheaper and better. This is just a simple reorganization of a County chart; it is not a slap in the face to the City. intended to be a slap in the face to Ester either. It simply is an effort to achieve better coordination and more efficiency among a variety of departments. City Manager Little had no quarrel with that; his only position was that there is an agreement, and he believed it would have been pleasant if the County had communicated with the Mayor to advise what was being proposed and why and said let's set the agreement aside. He did not see a great necessity for setting up a separate fund and accounting for the City's areas by themselves. Discussion arose as to a surplus amount of $600,000 being involved, and City Manager Little noted he was aware of that but believed that raises a question as to the real motive behind this change - was it to get the $600,000 out of that enterprise fund and somewhere else? Chairman Scurlock stated that the motive purely and simply was to have one point we can go to and say this has been done or it hasn't. City Attorney O'Brien pointed out that the City and County has an agreement calling for the Director of the Building Department to report directly to the County Administrator, and he did not think you can go around this with some torturous reasoning as Mr. Balczun has to substitute Bob Keating for the Director of the Building Department when we don't even know that he would be a qualified building official. If the County wishes to change this, they should change the agreement. County Attorney Vitunac asked why we do not just get rid of the agreement and go under trust, as he believed the City Manager had suggested, and have a separate accounting, keeping the money segregated. Commissioner Bird did not feel we need to separate the money, but Chairman Scurlock noted that it is already accounted 23 mc(F, F F,giC. 64 WIAR 18, 1987 MPGR I 1937 BOOK 67 uIlE645 for separately because there are provisions in the event the relationship is terminated. City Finance Director Nason advised the reason it was set up that way was to insure the rates were indeed bringing in the requisite amount of money to cover the City's portion and the County's portion and one wasn't subsidizing the other. City Manager Little noted also that they were to cover only the building activities as the City didn't want the fees charged City people to subsidize a building and zoning grandiose county development agency. City Manager Little continued to emphasize that he would like to have been informed of what was proposed in writing rather than hearing it over the grapevine. Discussion ensued as to the City Manager having been informed by telephone after an exchange in the newspaper, and Administrator Balczun stated that it is essentially unethical for one public sector managerial person to talk to the other in a public setting, but the issue came up and they did discuss it over the phone. During that discussion, he believed City Manager Little's concern was that we not alter the enterprise basis of the department in any fashion, and he assured Mr. Little that we have no intention of doing that. City Manager Little emphasized that he cannot amend an agreement that the Council and the Mayor have signed no matter what he thinks about it. MOTION WAS MADE by Commissioner Eggert, SECONDED by Commissioner Bowman, that the County Commission ask the Vero Beach City Council to join them in setting the agreement aside, keeping the Vero Beach money in a separate account, and proceeding in the way proposed by Administrator Balczun. Commissioner Bird realized there are people in the audience who are concerned about the proposed restructuring, and his first 24 reaction was "if it.a.in't broke., don't fix it." However, after - the Administrator expiained to him why he wanted this to be done and why it was necessary, Commissioner Bird stated that he told the Administrator he respected his authority and his decision and would go along with it with the understanding that if this change doesn't improve the situation and expediting of plans and if it causes a negative reaction in the Building Department, the Admin- istrator would reconsider his action and come up with another solution. Commissioner Eggert believed the Board members generally felt the same when they first heard of the proposed change, but she did believe we have had problems here for several years, especially in the single family realm, and we owe it to the public to consolidate and make the process simpler. She agreed there is a very real need. Commissioner Wheeler concurred, noting that he has discussed this with Administrator Balczun in the last few months and he be- lieved there has been a real problem. He supports the Adminis- trator's actions in trying to fix this, and if it is not fixed, we will know where to look and why it isn't fixed. Chairman Scurlock pointed out that there are about five different entities that must interrelate and mesh together in order to get that building permit or that C.O., and it is not working. We are having people who have to wait for 4-6 weeks to get something done and that is wrong. Councilman Howard asked whether the agreement has been in effect long enough that the City has no obligation to continue its agreement on this particular subject. County Attorney Vitunac stated it has been in existence four years, and Chairman Scurlock agreed it has been in effect long enough that we could let the City out at any time and if they wished, they could create their own department. Various members of the City Council indicated this was not desired. 25 BOO 1 F�Gr WAR I no 110 7 BOOK 6 F ;F 6! Councilman Howard stated that he would like to work this out without having a thorn sticking in anyone's side, and if the best way to resolve the situation tonight is by canceling the agreement, he is certainly in favor of it. Mayor Acor pointed out that this matter hasn't even been before the City Council, and, after conferring with the City Attorney, as far as he is concerned, the Commission will not get any action from the City until this matter has come before the Council on their agenda. Chairman Scurlock noted that the Commission can vote on its Motion, and the City can deal with it because it speaks for itself. City Councilman Michael Wodtke commented that he sat on the Board of Adjustment for thirteen years, and in his experience, most of the problems and delays they had came from the Planning Department and there was very little complaint re the Building Department. He believed many other members of that Board as well as of the public felt the same - that people were faced by a nightmare of delay and they were given a variance because the hardship itself was not created by them but by the Planning Department. Commissioner Eggert felt that there is a misunderstanding of the role of the Planning Department because they are dependent on others for data on many things, electric, utilities, drainage, for instance. She just did think there is a real need to serve the public better. Chairman Scurlock believed the bottom line is that the Commissioners unanimously individually have given Mr. Balczun a mandate to fix the situation, and this is the first action.to start that process. City Councilman Macht wished to know what will happen when the Commission passes its Motion to set the Agreement aside when the Mayor has indicated that the City Council will take no action 26 tonight,. He supports that decision as he personally has no background knowledge on.all this. Chairman Scurlock explained that he will leave it that the Commission has'taken'that action, and the City Council. through their attorney can identify that we have broken the contract and take whatever legal action they feel necessary, but in any event, by this action we would put the City on notice that within one year it will be that way anyway. Commissioner Wheeler believed the intent of the agreement, which was to protect the City personnel coming over to the County, has been fulfilled. It has been in effect four years; the County has shown good faith; and now we need to move on. City Manager Little wished to suggest that the Commission make whatever Motion they wish and transmit it either to him or the Mayor, indicating in the transmittal the organizational structure, the reporting chain, and the fiscal chain, so he can staff it with the City Attorney and Finance Director Nason and hopefully make a recommendation to the Council supporting what the County wants done. He believed that the City staff feels that legally the County probably can do what they want, but what that does is say to the Council there's no point in having contracts with the County because they won't honor them, and he would rather not get into that dialogue. CHAIRMAN SCURLOCK CALLED FOR THE QUESTION. It was voted on and carried unanimously. There being no further business, on Motion duly made, seconded and carried, the Board adjourned at 9:20 o'clock P.M. ATTEST: Clerk— I 27 --- Chairman BOOK �0 FaGE 64S J