HomeMy WebLinkAbout6/8/1988SPECIAL CITY/COUNTY MEETING
Wednesday, June 8, 1988
The Board of County Commissioners of Indian River County,
Florida, met in Special Session with the Vero Beach City Council
in the First Floor Conference Room, 1840 25th Street, Vero Beach,
Florida, on Wednesday, June 8, 1988, at 1:00 o'clock P.M.
Present were Don C. Scurlock, Jr., Chairman; Gary C. Wheeler,
Vice Chairman; Richard N. Bird; Margaret C. Bowman; and Carolyn
K. Eggert. Also present were Charles P. Balczun, County
Administrator; Charles P. Vitunac, Attorney to the Board of
County Commissioners; Joseph Baird, OMB Director; and Virginia
Hargreaves, Deputy Clerk.
Present from the City of Vero Beach were Mayor Kenneth
Macht, Vice Mayor Warren Winchester, and Councilmen Hoyt Howard
and Michael Wodtke, Councilman Vernon Krause being absent. Also
present were City Manager John Little and City Attorney Terrence
O'Brien.
Chairman Scurlock called the meeting to order and advised
those present that he and Mayor Macht discussed and agreed on the
parameters and guidelines for this meeting; they have agreed to
keep the time of adjournment at 3:00 P.M.; that it basically will
be an informal discussion on policy between the City Council and
County Commission; and that Chairman Scurlock will run this
meeting and Mayor Macht will run the next one.
RECREATION
Chairman Scurlock informed those present that Commissioner
Bird has handled that County's recreation for the•past eight
years and asked that he give everyone a general update.
'JUN 8 1988
73PAGE 01
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Commissioner Bird reported that we have been looking for a
way to expand our facilities since we still have a lot of areas
in the county that don't have the programs and opportunities
other areas have, and he felt it is in all of our best interests
to try to satisfy that inequity and try to provide the same
recreational opportunities countywide as best as we possibly can.
Commissioner Bird continued that he, along with City Finance
Director Tom Nason, were on a committee working on this a few
years back, and that committee felt some sort of countywide
recreation made a lot of sense and that it could be done.
Commissioner Bird believed the political climate is right, and if
we are ever going to take some major step forward in some form of
consolidation of our recreation departments, now is the time to
do it. The City of Sebastian is still growing and, in fact, is
projected to outgrow Vero Beach in the coming years. They are in
their infancy as far as recreation is concerned, and he believed
it is a crossroads for them also. The County is providing some
recreation there, but the City of Sebastian does not run any
major recreational program. Commissioner Bird advised that we
recently had an outside consultant do an impact user fee study
for us. The report was presented to the Commission, and it
basically deals with three areas of potential funding: 1) impact
fees; 2) user fees; and 3) some form of taxing district. The
Commission pretty well agreed that we would like to proceed
further with the impact and user fee portion and give additional
consideration to the possibility of a taxing district.
Commissioner Bird noted that last year we worked out an
agreement with the City of Vero Beach to utilize Pat Callahan as
Director of the of the County's Recreation program, which has
worked very well. We have a very small recreation staff; Mrs.
Callahan has been a big help to them in improving our programs;
and Commissioner Bird felt this is another step in the right
direction.
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JUN 81988 BOOK 7E�,cr 02
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Chairman Scurlock commented that one of the things that
makes this even more timely is that in the past the City had all
the assets, but he felt now that the county has grown and
acquired a good deal of ocean frontage, we are at least reaching
some sort of equity so that the situation is not so entirely
lop -sided and this makes it much more feasible. The basic point
of beginning, of course, is how do you fund it, and Chairman
Scurlock personally favored a special dependent district, which
he felt is a better setup in relation to the total tax picture.
From the county's standpoint, we have been been more in tune with
dependent districts.
Commissioner Bird reported that, in addition to the
beachfront we acquired, we just yesterday signed leases with the
State on a considerable amount of oceanfront property they have
bought, and we have agreed to develop that over a period of time
and make it available to the public. We also now have the county
golf course. One area where we have a tremendous void is in the
south of the county, and that is where a major part of our
population is. The County has been pursuing the idea of
developing a large regional park facility in the south of the
county, which would include many varied activities, and has been
negotiating with a property owner in the area of Oslo Road and
20th Avenue about an 80 acre piece of property. This is a big
undertaking financially.
Commissioner Bird believed, in talking of the political
climate, we must also include the School Board. They have been
receptive regarding the use of school facilities for recreational
purposes, and Director Callahan feels some of the school sites in
the South County could be utilized rather quickly if we want to
move in that direction.
Chairman Scurlock stated that he personally is in favor of
something similar to the South County Fire District where the
City, which already has the staff in place, would administer the
district, at least in the early years.
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JUN 8 1988 BOOK 73 PAGE 03
Vice Mayor Winchester asked if there has been any discussion
with Fellsmere, and was informed there has not.
Vice Mayor Winchester agreed the idea is timely, but felt if
we are going to do it, it should include not only Vero Beach and
the county at large, but Sebastian and Fellsmere as well, as many
as we can bring in, even Indian River Shores. He felt if any
part of the community is lacking in recreational facilities, it
is Fellsmere.
Chairman Scurlock agreed. He believed the greatest mistake
the County made was when we created the Fire Districts and
weren't strong enough'to say we will have just one district. He
felt with Recreation we should be strong enough to pull together
and create one district for the whole county.
Commissioner Bird advised that several years ago, we did go
before Sebastian and got a very positive response. He did agree
the groundwork and staff is in place, and possibly we could work
out some kind of agreement with the City similar to the way the
South County Fire District was transferred.
Chairman Scurlock continued to discuss why the transfer of
the Fire District was so successful and emphasized that we want
all communities to feel they are a part.
Mayor Macht expressed his feeling that the biggest opportun-
ity for success would be in the area of programming. He noted
that in some ways what the School Board does and some of the
municipalities is a duplication of effort, and he believed it
would be welcome news to the taxpayers that we could use School
Board facilities that are otherwise idle. He personally felt
this should be a step by step procedure because there is a good
deal of structure the City has that would have to be considered
on an individual basis, but the programming is something that
could be done in the near future by mutual agreement.
Chairman Scurlock agreed that one basic decision is where
parks fit in. He noted that sometimes in the county we have
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IJUN 8 1988 BOOK 73 PAGE 04
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considered them separately, and he believed this can be broken
out any way we choose.
Commissioner Bird concurred that the area of programming
would offer a fairly easy transition rather than facilities, and
believed with the school sites available, we could put programs
in some of these areas quite quickly.
Mayor Macht again emphasized that parks would be a facility
and not actually a part of the programming, and discussion
continued in regard to keeping parks separate, with Chairman
Scurlock noting that the County.cannot compete with the City in
the standard of maintenance of their parks, one of the reasons
being that the City's parks are concentrated in a much smaller
area.
Vice Mayor Winchester concurred with Mayor Macht that
programming would be the area we could initially afford, and
Chairman Scurlock believed the bottom line where there will be
disagreement is in regard to who pays for what. Once we can
agree on how and who pays, a lot of the other problems will
disappear; so, we need an equitable formula up front to
distribute the cost.
Vice Mayor Winchester congratulated County Public Works
Director Davis on his recently completed Parks & Recreation Use
Fee and Revenue Study, which he felt was very comprehensive.
Commissioner Bird agreed and noted it was basically a
home-grown report mainly done by Public Works Director Jim Davis
along with Recreation Director Pat Callahan and staff. It wasn't
just something someone from out of town thought we ought to have.
Mayor Macht believed it seems that we agree on the pro-
gramming area and want to charge our staff with working in that
direction.
Chairman Scurlock advised that the County's liaison in the
Recreation area is Commissioner Bird, and he can appoint whatever
administratives resources to this that he chooses.
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[JUN 8 1981 BOOK 73 F-., ®�
Mayor Macht noted that Councilman Wodtke would be the City
Council's representative on that committee, but the City has a
vertical staff structure which is slightly different.
Commissioner Bird clarified that he will not be functioning
as a staff person; he will be the liaison for the Commission but
will depend on our staff to work with the City staff. He felt
the nuts and bolts need to be worked out on staff level and then
brought back.
Vice Mayor Winchester wished that we could all be a little
more straight forward in regard to impact fees and call them what
they really are - taxes.
County Attorney Vitunac stated that impact fees are not
taxes. They are a totally different philosophy, and there would
have to be a referendum if we have going to have a tax. He
stressed that impact fees shift the cost to the newcomer to buy
his part of the parks that are already there from the taxpayers
who have been here a long time.
Vice Mayor Winchester understood the difference, but noted
that while legally you can say it is whatever you think, the
taxpayer does not see it that way.
Councilman Hoyt Howard expressed his opinion that user fees
will go over better with the public than impact fees and taxes.
Commissioner Bird noted that Director Davis' report
indicates a three -pronged approach; he has a 20 -year capital
improvement program which pretty well lays out what we need to
spend; and it implies that impact fees will generate a major
portion of its funds and the money to operate the programs will
come from user fees or through contributions from some sort of
taxes.
Chairman Scurlock informed those present that we actually
have had support for the impact fees. In fact, local developer
Peter Robinson, said it is the best thing we ever did, especially
since the Comprehensive Plan now mandates that you have a funding
mechanism for that infrastructure, and if you don't have it, you
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JUN 1988 Bov.. 73 F,1, 06
don't build. The Chairman believed Treasure Coast Builders
supports impact fees; the one thing that comes up is making it
equitable.
Vice Mayor Winchester did not question the need for the
money; his only comment was that politically and philosophically
we need to find a way to make what we are doing a little more
palatable to those who pay the bill.
Commissioner Bird requested that Attorney Vitunac explain
about impact fees and how they work as far as the county and the
municipalities are concerned, where the funds are collected,
where they are spent, etc.
Attorney Vitunac stated that new people coming in will pay a
share based on a study, and he felt it would help if Director
Davis gave a synopsis of his report.
City Manager Little advised that the City staff has had a
chance to review Jim's report, and when it is ready for formal
action, they are ready to take a position.
Commissioner Bird asked if the municipalities can opt in or
out, and Attorney Vitunac confirmed that it is optional.
Chairman Scurlock noted that basically you develop a capital
improvement program where you can pay for the new improvements
that will be caused by new growth, and then you have a variety of
options. You can zone it as we did with traffic and collect
funds in certain zones, and fees could be different in each zone
or you could have an overall impact fee and not zone it. There
are a variety of approaches.
Attorney Vitunac emphasized that the main thing about impact
fees is that they bring the new person up to the standard that is
already there; they are not a source of money to improve the
whole program for the future; that has to come out of tax money
or user fees. One of our towns dropped out of our road fee
program because they said they wanted to do their own impact fees
and pave all their roads, but the problem is that their standard
is dirt roads and they can't do that with impact fees. They
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BOOK 73 FACE 07
don't understand impact fees, and Attorney Vitunac believed this
really needs an educational program.
Chairman Scurlock further noted that today government is
being forced to look at alternate sources of funding because many
traditional sources have dried up, and he, therefore, felt we
must look at a combination of sources to fund the program.
Unfortunately, it seems your desire is usually a lot bigger than
your ability to pay.
County Attorney Vitunac wished to point out that there is
another possibility. When the County took over the countywide
library services, libraries were just merged into the General
Fund of the county. It is perfectly possible to take Recreation
and make it a countywide obligation under the General Fund with
no referendum, no agreements, etc.; then you would just rely on
the.County Commission to provide countywide recreation, and they
would involve themselves with the City's assets by buying or
leasing or some other arrangement. It does not have to be a
special district which we are finding cumbersome in some other
areas. That is a major decision.
Commissioner Wheeler felt if the public wants services and
is willing to vote for the district, then they should pay for it,
but they should not have it pushed on them by any elected board.
He very strongly preferred a referendum and a dependent taxing
district for Recreation.
Chairman Scurlock also liked the concept of a special
dependent district.
Discussion ensued regarding who would be the governing body
of the district and how this would be worked out, and Mayor Macht
believed what we really need is all these alternatives spelled
out so the Council and Commission can look them over. He still
felt the first step is programming. He noted that a major part
of the City's taxes go into their recreation program; so, they
have a proprietary feeling about it.
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Chairman Scurlock noted there are some significant differ-
ences due to the City's smaller geographic boundaries; the County
could not afford to do countywide what the City does.
Commissioner Bird stated that he would like to see staff
directed to come up with a phasing -in approach to countywide
recreation on a long term basis. As to short term, we have
budget sessions right ahead of us, and he would like to see us go
farther than we are now with Director Pat Callahan and the City,
and possibly have some kind of interlocal agreement.
Chairman Scurlock believed one beginning point will be the
Old Jail facility, and he understood from the newspapers that the
City has some funds in their budget for that purpose.
City Manager Little advised that the City is ready to
discuss the Jail site whenever the County is, and Architect
Charles Block is here for that purpose.
DISCUSSION OF OLD JAIL SITE
City Manager Little reported that the City had a structural
analysis done to see if the building could be used. When that
decision was reached, they then went through the numbers to see
what it would cost to make it usable and also developed the
numbers relating to the cost to build a new building with the
space Director Callahan needs. This was done with little, if
any, concern about the joint City/County needs. They then
estimated demolition costs, and Architect Charles Block has
prepared a booklet which he can walk everyone through.
Architect Block took the floor to review his report -
"A Feasibility Study of the Old Indian River County Jail For the
City of Vero Beach Recreation Department." Said Study is on file
in the office of Clerk to the Board, and summary of the study is
as follows:
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JUN Boox 73 P,�u U9
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'JUN 8199 10 BOOK f
ae, Ocrchitect, inc,
INTRODUCTION
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The purpose of this feasibility study -is to determine whether the
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Recreation Department should have the existing County.Jail Building
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renovated, or demolished and a new building built on the existing site.
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With the use of existing building drawings, site visits, programmatic
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information from the Recreation Department and Information provided by
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individuals mentioned below this office has come up with costs estimates
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for the 2 following schemes:
1. Demolish all accessory building excluding the existing exercise
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'building and renovate the interior, and exterior of the County Jail Building,
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exercise building, upgrade the site landscaping, irrigation and lighting,
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new roof, etc. Tho renovated building area will be approximately
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16,400 S.F. with a renovation cost estimated of $475,000.00. This
renovated construction cost breaks. down to approximately $29/S.F.
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2. Demolish all on-site buildings and build a new 9450 S.F. Recreation
Department Building on the existing site for a estimated construction cost
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of $508,000.00. This cost also includes site work such as landscaping,
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sodding, irrigation, site lighting,.etc. The demolition and new building
construction cost breaks down to approximately $54/S.F.
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The above costs do not include architectural and engineering fees, impact
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fees and building permit fees.
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In summary, demolition and new building costs "vs" renovation costs are
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approximately the same, when comparing dollars to dollars_ When the
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total building area "vs" the cost/S.F. is evaluated, it is evident that the
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renovation costs of $29/S.F. for 13,400 S.F. is almost half the demolition
and new building cost of $54/S.F. for 9,450 S.F.
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The information contained within this feasibility study was done with the
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assistance of the following people:
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Mosby and Associates Mr. Cliff Suthard, City of Vero Beach
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Mr. Bill Vernon, City of Vero Beach Mr. Paul Berthieume, PSI Services
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Ms. Pat Callahan, City of Vero Beach Mr. Bill McCain, Indian River County
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'JUN 8199 10 BOOK f
Architect Block noted that the site is about 5 acres, about
1 acre of which is the Volunteer Ambulance Squad. The out -parcel
frame buildings will be demolished. They essentially took the
building itself and said what could we do with it. Mr. Block
noted that, as shown in the pictures, it looks pretty bad, but
most of it is a clean-up situation. They were mainly concerned
about the structure, but determined that it is structurally very
sound. The roof has a lot of problems, but related to
waterproofing, not structural problems. The next step was to
consider the existing recreation office space, what they are
operating under now, and what is projected for ten years. He
believed it is a conclusion that without the county area input,
the City over the next 10 years would have their act together and
probably not expand greatly beyond what they are now. As to
cost, they used City building standards.
Chairman Scurlock expressed his concern as to whether it can
be an environment that the people using the facility will be
happy working in.
Architect Block believed, particularly with the function
they are dealing with, that they can do some real fun things with
color, awnings, etc., much more easily than if it were just the
normal office building.
Chairman Scurlock asked if they are considering using this
for programs as well as administration, and was advised it is
intended mainly for administration, registration, and storage.
Chairman Scurlock envisioned that if we do get into overall
countywide recreation, it will require a considerable administra-
tive complex.
Architect Block advised that what they have programmed is
about double the space they have now. He noted they can build a
new building for about the same dollars, but in renovation, they
will end up with twice the space. He advised that Director
Callahan came up with a program, and he applied the function to
it. They did make provision for a good deal of expansion.
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BOOK .73 f'r,E 11
Chairman Scurlock expressed his concern about the unexpected
problems that may be encountered in renovating an old building,
such as we experienced in renovating the old hospital for our
Administration Building. He noted that we continually have had
to address substantial on-going problems with balancing the air
conditioning, wasted space, etc. However, we got the facility
basically for very little so it still is a good deal.
Architect Block advised that what they were trying to
determine was can the structure work, and then they started from
new with electrical, mechanical, plumbing, etc.
Commissioner Bird inquired if it is the City's feeling that
they really need the whole site, and it was indicated that for
parking, etc., they do.
City Manager Little commented that no one was more negative
about renovating that building than he was, and there is no
question that they could build a better building that is more
functional with less wasted space if they started from scratch.
Therefore, when Mr. Block came aboard, his instructions were very
specific because the City did not want to move into the building
and every three days end up having to call a repairman.
The City Manager confirmed that all the plumbing, all the
electrical, and all the air conditioning will be new. A new
$50,000 roof will be required. Basically they are taking
concrete walls as if nothing was in them and putting everything
back in place. With that, they can get enough space for the
City's needs and a joint need in a location that staff is
convinced is close to ideal. The parking for the purposes of
registration for the recreation programs is adequate, but not
oversize. The fuel tanks would come out. It is a trade off.
The demolition costs are between $70-$100,000, including the
landfill costs, but even with that, if they start building a
brand new building, it would cost twice as much to get the amount
of space available in the old building, . As far as expansion is
concerned, this was projected out to the year 2000.
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BOOK 3 GE�
Chairman Scurlock believed, in any event, when we do go with
a countywide program, there will be a need for some satellite
facilities as we grow.
Commissioner Bird felt this is an excellent location for the
hub of recreation activities. He asked City Manager Little if
what they have in mind is that the county make the site and
building available and the City do for the renovation.
City Manager Little advised that he has not had a chance to
talk to the Council about this, but the situation is that they
have borrowed and signed notes and taken down $400,000 for new
recreation administration offices under the Sunshine State Pool,
of which they are a charter member, and they have 12 months to
spend that money or it becomes non tax exempt. Mr. Little felt
the quick answer to Commissioner Bird's questions is that if the
County turns the title over to the City of Vero Beach, they will
build the building and have it open 12 months from now, and it
will be a joint City/County administration building.
Administrator Balczun wished to know when we talk about
turning over title, if we are talking about the entire remaining
free site, which is a fairly substantial piece of land, and it
was confirmed it would be the entire site except for the
ambulance squad property.
Mayor Macht asked if the building would be capable of an
addition at some time, and Mr. Block explained it is within the
setbacks in the middle of the property and could be added to.
Councilman Howard spoke strongly in favor of building a new
building as he felt the costs would be very close.
City Manager Little agreed that the costs would-be close,
but pointed out that there is twice the square footage in the
renovated building as opposed to a new building for the same
cost.
Discussion continued as to the exact acreage in the site,
and Commissioner Wheeler asked if the deed could be constructed
so that if we create a district that would go to the district.
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JUN 8 1988Box .73 FACE 13
City Manager Little believed that is a policy question, and
he felt if it were wished to structure it that way, it could be
worded to say "if the City joined the District."
Commissioner Wheeler noted that what he is hearing is that
we are talking about creating a countywide district, and if that
occurred, he would like to see that be a part of the pie to start
out with.
Chairman Scurlock did not feel that at the very least every-
one wouldn't agree that we need an interlocal agreement. He did
not have the fear that we are going to give the City the land and
they are going to do the building and then say you go your way.
City Manager Little felt that Attorney Vitunac and Attorney
O'Brien together could come up with an interlocal agreement to
take us through the next budget year.
Mayor Macht believed we all have gone as far as we can go
with policy at this meeting, and felt we should give this to
staff to work out something definitive.
City Manager Little just wanted to relay that City staff has
done their homework with the result that they feel they should go
ahead and renovate the building and that they have a time
constraint with the funds they have already borrowed; so, if they
are not going to spend them here, they have to look for an
alternative very quickly.
Chairman Scurlock instructed County staff to work with the
City staff as discussed.
Commissioner Bird asked if the interlocal agreement being
discussed would encompass the programming and the Jail site, and
Mayor Macht believed we were talking just about the Jail site at
this time and staff can work on the programming.
Chairman Scurlock asked that County Attorney Vitunac first
get us in a position to convey title and then work with the City
staff to come up with a program which will be part of the
interlocal agreement for next year.
131.1m 8 IM 14 BOOK 73 Fa -UE 14
City Manager Little inquired about the county timetable. He
noted the district has a lot of ways it can work and a lot of pit
falls and asked if we want to shoot for a year from September.
Chairman Scurlock agreed it would take a year to get people
educated.
Commissioner Bird felt we should look at the District
possibly October 1st, 1989. He felt on a short term basis what
we can do is enlarge the management agreement that we have now to
expand on Pat Callahan's abilities, and in the next budget year
allow some money to take some recreation programs to the south
county, to Fellsmere, etc., that they are lacking now and get
them exposed. He believed that will enhance our chances of the
voters approving this a year from now.
Mayor Macht noted that the City's priority is dealing with
the site, and Commissioner Eggert believed we all agree it would
be a terrific site for this purpose.
Councilman Wodtke expressed his support of the new plans for
this site and stated that he was glad to see the joint
cooperation between City and County.
Councilman Howard commented that he also was definitely
fighting the Library issue, but this brings to light something a
bit different and he is real proud to be part of it.
City Manager Little stated that if there are no objections,
he then will bring the proposal of Mr. Block to City Council and
will take everything on faith to move ahead with the formal
design.
ON MOTION by Commissioner Eggert, SECONDED by Commis-
sioner Bird, the Board of County Commissioners unanimously
agreed to deed over to the City of Vero Beach that 4.28
acres of land with the buildings so they can proceed with
the proposed renovation as well as the interlocal agreement.
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BOOK 73 r-A;E 15
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TOURIST TAX MATTERS
Commissioner Wheeler commented that he did not put this
matter on the agenda, and City Manager Little explained that he
included it at the request of City Finance Director Nason.
Mr. Nason believed the matters he was concerned about are
primarily resolved. He noted that the problem is that it seems
the Tourist Tax Board is not very familiar with the documents
that put it together.
Commissioner Wheeler, who chairs the Tourist Tax Committee,
agreed that several members were opening up areas that we didn't
have any business getting into.
Mr. Nason explained that there was some pretty wide
diversions from the original intent for the monies, and City
Manager Little confirmed that the City just wanted them to stick
to the original program.
Commissioner Wheeler advised that he made it clear that his
position is and will be that the first two years' budget passed
by the voters will stand, the only exception being we voted to
give $5,000 to the Arts Council.
INDIAN RIVER BOULEVARD NORTH AND MERRILL BARBER BRIDGE
REPLACEMENT
Chairman Scurlock advised from the County's standpoint that
the one thing we have directed our Public Works Director is that
we want the Boulevard built and we have said move as fast as you
can to do that. Developmental plans have come and gone, and
while we are willing to work with them, our only concern has been
that we do not want to get involved in any process to delay us
building the Boulevard.
City Manager Little noted the City has had some staff meet-
ings because it looked as if they might be part of the problem
for a while, but they have met with the property owners; it is
inside the City limits, and he believed everything is on course.
16 BOOK 73 DGE 16
JUN 8 1988
Commissioner Bird noted that Public Works Director Davis
gave the Board the new alignment plan yesterday to which the
Board agreed, and he felt it is in agreement with the City.
City Manager Little believed the land owners are on board,
and Director Davis stated that as far as we know, most of them
are.
Chairman Scurlock noted that the county also does not want
to do anything that would make any new bridge more expensive by
creating additional developable land, and City Manager Little
expressed his conviction that the County should proceed to put
the Boulevard where they plan, and the City will put the bridge
wherever the Boulevard is.
Mayor Macht believed wherever the bridge hits the Boulevard,
it will be by an aerial route and no causeway will be involved.
City Manager Little confirmed that the State, if they went
to that alternative, is proposing an elevated bridge all the way
to the intersection with the Boulevard with no interchange off of
it. He believed they have programmed some money for planned
condemnation for the land the bridge will be going over.
Chairman Scurlock asked Public Works Director Davis if we
wil'I be involved in a joint mitigation situation and if there are
things we can do together.
Director Davis advised that as it stands now, the minor
alignment change does not negate the county purchasing that
impoundment #22, which is about 100 acres, which would include
the alignment for the new bridge coming across. We are pro-
ceeding to get an appraisal updated to purchase impoundment #22.
Question arose as to whether there would be any state monies
for this, and Director Davis advised that the DOT has appropri-
ated some Local Government Assistance Program Funds to the
project, about $100,000, which is not enough to be able to buy
the whole impoundment, but we do have a commitment from the DOT
for funding to that level.
17 sou .73 r'nUE 1
,JUN 8 1988 _.
City Manager Little noted that we hopefully are touching all
the bases, but we don't even know where the bridge is going to
go, and the City's feeling is that the County should move ahead
with the Boulevard as if the bridge had never been mentioned.
Mayor Macht advised that he has written a letter to the
Governor and DOT requesting that they consider the northernmost
option exclusively, and he would like the County's support of
this.
MOTION WAS MADE by Commissioner Eggert, SECONDED by
Commissioner Bird, that the Chairman send a letter to
the DOT and the Governor in support of the northern-
most option for the bridge.
Commissioner Bird believed the thought is that the bridge
will intersect with the Boulevard and the traffic will flow north
and south from that point.
THE CHAIRMAN CALLED FOR THE QUESTION.
It was voted on and carried unanimously.
LIVE TELECASTING OF MEETINGS
Chairman Scurlock noted that his first question in regard to
the proposed telecasting is whether it is free.
Administrator Balczun reviewed a cost proposal from Treasure
Coast Television based on 50 meetings a year, probably of about
two hours each, with perhaps 15 meetings that would go over the
two hours by 15 minutes or so, and the cost would be about
$29,000 annually. He explained that the air time on the channel
is free, but if we want meetings broadcast, we would pay for the
production time.
Commissioner Wheeler stated that as far as paying a fee for
this is concerned, it would have to be shown to him where a lot
18
Boort 73 F'nx 18
JUN 8 1980
of the people in the county will benefit from it because if the
money comes out of the General Fund, they will be paying for it.
The Board generally indicated they were not interested in
having the meetings telecast.
FUNDING OF VERO BEACH E-911 FROM CUSTOMER SURCHARGE
City Manager Little asked Police Chief Gabbard to bring
everyone up to date.
Chief Gabbard noted that he came to the County Commission
last year in this regard and they very kindly appropriated
$15,000 from these funds to be paid to the City of Vero Beach for
the revenue period January 1, 1988 through September 30, 1988.
Chief Gabbard stated that the situation has not changed, and he
just wished to be sure they get an equitable share of what is
being taxed on the 504 surcharge. He did not know what has built
up in that account in the interim, but believed it was projected
at $15,000 every 9 months.
OMB Director Baird did not have those figures with him, and
believed we need to sit down and go over this with Chief Gabbard
since we must submit figures to Tallahassee in regard to the
exact items we are going to purchase with the money.
Chief Gabbard emphasized that he is just asking for the
spirit of cooperation in being sure his department gets the
benefit of a share of the monies collected.
City Manager Little inquired if he was talking about a
one-time cost in order to make the transition to the new police
facility, and Commissioner Wheeler believed that is what we
supported last year.
Discussion ensued regarding recurring and non-recurring
fees, and Chief Gabbard clarified that the County agreed to
continue the recurring $2,300 monthly fees, and all the County
had available at that time in the non-recurring fees account was
$15,000, which they agreed to give him. At that time, they told
JUN 19 BOOK 73 F'A;C 19
him to come back and make another pitch later, and here he is.
His department is still 6 or 8 months away from having to
actually need the equipment, and they are making some arrange-
ments on their own for a little bit of the financing, but it will
require them to use a lot of outdated equipment. He wanted to
bring their equipment up to date and facilitate their move in the
best way possible instead of having to shut down their services.
Chairman Scurlock suggested the Board direct staff to look
at what funds are available and get that information back to us.
Councilman Wodtke asked who is in charge of 911 policy and
program as there have been some serious problems with this
lately.
Commissioner Eggert advised that it comes out of the
Sheriff's Department along with Emergency Management. They are
just switching over to the new central communications, and there
may be some glitches until this is all ironed out.
DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT AND RELATED MATTERS
Mayor Macht wished to thank the Board for their decision to
locate the Library downtown, which he believed will have long
term benefits to the City, and Vice Mayor Winchester echoed his
thanks.
Chairman Scurlock advised that Commissioner Wheeler is
handling our court facilities and planning to build some new ones
in the downtown area, and he, therefore, felt it is important to
stay in close touch and blend all this in together to meet the
County's and City's needs.
Administrator Balczun agreed and further noted that whatever
we do, one consideration we must take into account is how any
change to our existing courthouse would interphase with the new
library, etc., so they become part of a larger whole.
20
JUN 81988 BOOK 73
Commissioner Eggert inquired what exactly the City expected
from their consultants, Post Buckley, and Planning Director
Walter Young stated that it is mainly conceptual ideas at this
point; it is not to the point of specifically locating buildings.
Mayor Macht assured the Board that City staff will supply
them with the documentation that is developed and keep the County
informed.
Commissioner Bird brought up the wonderful job Winter Park
has done with their downtown, which has become a very prestigious
area. He was curious just how Winter Park was able to do their
redevelopment so successfully, and Mr. Young believed it was
through a combination of tax incremental financing and private
endowment, and involved very little of the taxpayer's money.
Chairman Scurlock believed that we would be well advised to
keep in touch with the development the First Baptist Church is
planning, and Mr. Young noted that if anyone is approached in
regard to any long term building in that area, he would like to
have this information funneled to his department.
Commissioner Bird inquired what happened to the plan for the
fancy playground at the downtown park, and was advised that the
fund raising has not gone well.
Chairman Scurlock wished to know of the long range plans for
the old Community Building, and Mr. Nason advised that actually
that structure, although old, is a pretty good building, and
City Manager Little confirmed that is another building he had
thought was hopeless, but apparently it is far from hopeless.
Commissioner Bird felt there is a lot of history there and
believed that is part of the ambiance Winter Park has created
with what they have done.
TWIN PAIRS AND GENERAL DISCUSSION,
Chairman Scurlock noted that the Twin Pairs is not on the
agenda, but advised that he specifically asked the DOT if we
21
JUN 81988 BOOK 7�.a�F.
could accelerate that project if the City and County were willing
to front some money, and the answer was yes.
City Manager Little suggested that he not make that
suggestion again unless the City runs up the red flag as they
don't think this will be necessary. City staff has been given to
understand that the design for it, which is under contract, must
be done by February of 1989 and the construction has to start by
June of 1989 or -they lose the infrastructural funds for it. Mr.
Little believed they are doing the survey work now with a
completion date of 1991.
Chairman Scurlock next brought up the problem of people
running the yield signs on U.S.I. at the new intersection by St.
Helen's Catholic Church and felt possibly there should be a stop
sign there instead. City staff advised that they have concerns
also and have talked to the DOT about this.
Commissioner Eggert reported that we have an architect ready
to start on the North County library and the 1st of September she
believed we will have a main library architect ready to go.
Mayor Macht advised that the City Council has authorized him
to write the Governor indicating support of designating the
Indian River Lagoon an estuary of national significance.
Along those same lines, City Manager Little reported that he
has been promised the completion of the study regarding feasibil-
ity, permit problems, environmental problems, cost, etc., to take
wastewater discharge out of the river; possibly, it will be
available for the next Council meeting. The City has talked to
St. John's and some golf course operators, and their own staff
about this, and it is the age old problem that it looks like a
workable project but how do you get the front money.
22 mor 73
,JUN 1
Commissioner Bowman asked about the possibility of any money
for this under the SWIM Bill, and City Manager Little felt some
may be some left in EPA and they are taking steps for a grant and
Will probably try to get some money out of the SWIM Bill.
DISCUSSION RE PROPERTY FOR NATIONAL GUARD
Commissioner Bird noted that Commissioner Eggert brought to
his attention that the National Guard is looking for a site in
the county for an armory. He believed the Board is receptive to
having a unit here, but we have searched our inventory of land
and can't come up with a 20 acre site.
City Manager Little advised that the National Guard talked
to the City, and the City has nothing to offer either.
Commissioner Bird asked about the possibility of any
property at the old landfill site and how long we have to go
before that is usable.
City Manager Little pointed out that if the property is part
of the Airport District, it can't be leased for a dollar. He did
not believe the part of the old landfill closest to the road is
in the Airport District, but did not know how long it would take
before anything could be built on that.
Chairman Scurlock noted that the problem there is the
methane, and he believed when we built the animal shelter, we had
some pretty heavy methane releases.
Commissioner Bowman asked about the advisability of paving
over the wellfields in the vicinity of the old landfill, and City
Manager Little assured her that they monitor the wells.
Chairman Scurlock asked when we will have another joint
meeting as he felt this was very informative.
Mayor Macht also expressed his enthusiasm and felt the next
meeting should be when we can have a similarly useful meeting.
He suggested that we adjourn sine die and try to schedule a
meeting at least on a quarterly basis.
23
J 73 b 93
� ��1�
City Manager Little commented that if we can get an
interlocal agreement that takes us through next year and lays the
groundwork for the next step, he felt we may want another such
meeting between now and next September.
This was generally agreed.
There being no further business, on Motion duly made,
seconded and carried, the meeting adjourned at 2:45 o'clock P.M.
ATTEST:
Chairman
JUN ® 24 BOOK .73 3 D-GUE 24