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HomeMy WebLinkAbout11/17/1988Thursday, November 17, 1988 SPECIAL CITY/COUNTY MEETING The Board of County Commissioners of Indian River County, Florida, met in Special Session with the Vero Beach City Council, at the City Council Chambers, City Hall, Vero Beach, Florida, on Thursday, November 17, 1988, at 9:00 o'clock A.M. Present were Don C. Scurlock, Jr., Chairman; Gary C. Wheeler, Vice Chairman; Richard N. Bird; Margaret C. Bowman; and Carolyn K. Eggert. Also present were William G. Collins, II, Acting County Administrator; Charles P. Vitunac, Attorney to the Board of County Commis- sioners; and Virginia Hargreaves, Deputy Clerk. Present from the City of Vero Beach were Mayor Kenneth Macht, Vice Mayor Warren Winchester, and Councilmen Vernon Krause and Michael Wodtke; Councilman Hoyt Howard being absent. Also present were City Manager John Little and City Attorney Terrence O'Brien. Mayor Macht called the meeting to order and requested that during the meeting everyone give some thought to scheduling a definite day sometime in the next quarter to hold another joint meeting. Mayor Macht then introduced Mr. Easterbrook from the Florida Secretary of State's Office, who is in town visiting our local Arts Agencies. Mr. Easterbrook came before the meeting and advised that his position is with the Bureau of Grant Services, and he brings greetings from the Florida Arts Council and the Bureau of Cultural Affairs. He reported that currently the community is receiving total funds of $38,200 in comparison to last year's NOV 17X988 BOOK frjE 193 $12,417, and spoke briefly of the state's increased budget commitment to the arts, noting that Florida has gone from 22nd to about 4th in the country. Mr. Easterbrook also reported on their continuing programs and planning for cultural facility development. Mayor Macht noted that we have a lot on the agenda related to state mandates and asked Chairman Scurlock to open up discussion on the first Agenda item. SOLID WASTE Chairman Scurlock reported that the county has done a great deal in this area, including developing a master plan with Camp, Dresser, McKee. Chairman Scurlock gave a brief history of the establishing of the Landfill, which at the time was declared state-of-the-art, and now it is practically antique. He then discussed the costs associated with closing the Landfill cell, noting that the new cell is state -of -the art for today and for Florida. It is lined and will be capped and has a leachate collection facility built into it. We have a new air curtain burner, and we do recycle and recover such things as ferrous metals to a limited extent. We are aggressively looking ahead to new technology, but the bottom line is the cost effectiveness of it. We presently run around 400 tons a day of solid waste, and the 30% recycling requirement in the new taw, which is still developing, is of concern. The Chairman introduced County Utilities Director Terry Pinto to bring everyone up to date as to what is involved. Utilities Director Pinto informed those present that the county started this year out looking at a new method to fund the Landfill, which he believes probably will be used throughout the state by all the counties. There are a tremendous amount of new administrative requirements to see that the cost is directly related to the benefit the people are receiving, and we are 2 NOV 1? 1988 BOOK 75 DU 104 checking closely on tonnage and type of garbage in order to further define the benefitted people and be sure they are charged for what they are generating. Recycling is a big issue. There is an up and down market for newspapers and also for aluminum cans. However, the entire state now will be required to recycle 30% of our waste; so, the market will be flooded with recyclable material, and Director Pinto foresaw that eventually instead of someone paying us for these goods, we will be paying them to take them away. He advised that we will not be separating this material at our Landfill. We will be receiving a proposal for an update of our master plan to comply with the current law, but it looks as if we will have separate bins at our own transfer stations for the people themselves to separate glass, aluminum and newspapers. Director Pinto felt the people must be mainly responsible for separation. Director Pinto continued that plastic bags present a major problem in waste disposal, and he anticipated coming to the Board and asking that we eliminate the use of all plastic bags in the county operation. Also, after July 1st, we will not be able to put a whole tire into the Landfill; they must be shredded in some manner. Construction materials must be separated. White goods such as refrigerators and stoves can no longer be placed in the Landfill; so, we have our hands full working out how we are going to handle all this. He cautioned that no matter what process you get into to handle garbage flow, you still will need your Landfill, and we, therefore, must continue to look at all alternatives to reduce flow into the Landfill. Septage and sludge are a major problem at the Landfill, and we are proceeding with the development of a septage and sludge treatment facility, which is approximately a 6 million dollar project. We have received an$1.8 million grant because the state and federal government recognize the problem and under a new funding program, we are attempting to get an additional$1.9 million from the DER in the form of a 20 year loan at a low 3 N O V 11 1988 BOOK 75 Dr.,E 195 percentage rate, and that looks very good at this point. Mr. Pinto then discussed some of the technicalities involved with treatment of septage and sludge. Chairman Scurlock requested that Mr. Pinto discuss the economics of the Landfill operation and compare our fees to those of some other counties. Director Pinto advised that before the new regulations and the mandated separation, we are talking probably around $28 a ton. This charge has ranged from $25 a ton in some rural counties up to $135 a ton in other more populated counties, and some wish they could get rid of it for that price, i.e., the famous barge of garbage that was traveling around trying to find a place to dump. For every person who moves in the state, we are now talking 1.6 tons per household. In addition, he noted that we have some 5,000 animal carcasses coming into the Landfill annually, and we hope to have our new incinerator in operation in about four months. He believed that mandated collection is on the horizon and that we will not be able to avoid it much longer. Mayor Macht believed when the mandate comes, we will need state assistance and legislation dealing with such things as fast food places and all their packaging. Director Pinto agreed that plastic packaging presents a real problem. He noted that the original law had in it elimination of such things as styrofoam cups, plastic bags and wrappers, for different type products, and he believed it will be mandated that plastic bags will be eliminated in the early 1990's. Styrofoam manufacturers, however, are fighting them off and saying they must have an environmental impact study done, and the Bottle Bill also has been pushed back by lobbyists. In regard to tires, the state realized the problem the counties are having; so, the state put a tax on tires, but they get the tax. The Legislature tells us what we can't do, but doesn't give the answers. City Manager Little commented that the City's position on the Landfill hasn't been touched on today, and actually what he 4 NOV 17 1988 BOOK 75 0,E196 has heard irritates him somewhat. He believed a unilateral decision has been made that we aren't going to recycle at the Landfill but want the people to do it at home, and he felt the City and County staffs should work closer together on this so the City will know what is being done. Director Pinto interjected that, first of all, those decisions haven't been made yet, and one of the things he has cautioned his staff on is that Indian River County and the City normally are the first in the area to come up with some innova- tion, and he would like us to drag our feet a little bit to see what some of the success stories and some of the failures with recycling are. City Manager Little emphasized that separation is one thing in rural areas, but in the "cliff dwelling" condo and apartment areas in Vero Beach, it is very different. Most apartments simply do not have sufficient area to have four separate bins to separate garbage; the mechanics of this in an apartment complex would be very difficult, and he felt we are asking almost the impossible if we ask those people to separate on site. Director Pinto agreed that we certainly have to look at all this, and the economics are the important thing. The outcry over the $31.00 a year levy has been tremendous., and that is what we must look at. If some people can't do the separation, it still will have to be done somehow, and they will either have to curb their use or pay for the separation and let someone else do it. Chairman Scurlock noted that sorting as close to the source as possible is the most cost effective, and there has been some talk about a specific provision within our rate structure to either reward someone who can reduce our cost, or, in a sense, penalize those who either do not want to do the separation or possibly have some difficulty in doing it. Mayor Macht felt the primary objective is to recognize that we have a problem and a deadline, and obviously this involves more than just the City of Vero Beach. 5 NOV 171988 LOOK /5 PACE 197 A lady in the audience had a question about where the surtax on tires goes and what a tire shredder costs, and Director Pinto believed that there is supposed to be a grant program developed that would allow that money to be distributed among the counties. Regarding a tire shredder, he advised it would cost about a quarter million dollars. Discussion continued, and City Manager Little pointed out that the City has a major investment in garbage compactor trucks, and they are not particularly enchanted with the idea of throwing that tremendous investment away if recycling takes place at the home. He further was of the opinion that people will object to recycling themselves; they feel they are paying for garbage service now. Director Pinto emphasized that they are not paying the City now to separate their garbage, and if we can get everyone to understand that it will cost "X" amount of dollars more to separate the garbage, and they will agree to it; then we can work it out. City Manager Little continued to emphasize that the City wants to be communicated with and wants to be part of the process. He commented that he just received information from FPi;L where they are willing to come in and contract to mass burn at $50 a ton up and you don't have to separate it. There is also talk about a national consortium for resource recovery that is trying to put together several counties and have them bring everything to a central plant which they will build. Chairman Scurlock assured Mr. Little that he, Director Pinto and our consultants have looked at all of these alternatives. He further pointed out that some time back the City opted out of the Landfill business and handed it over to the county, and with all due respect, we are going to run our own show. Commissioner Wheeler noted that neighboring counties have more high rise buildings than we do, and he felt we probably 6 N O V 17 1988 1. BOOK `75 FgE i 8 should have some dialogue with them about a consortium as he believed there is a need for both methods. Mayor Macht agreed that we must get city and county staff together and expand on this as we cannot consider all the details here. Other City Council members concurred. Councilman Winchester felt there is also a need to try to work with the Legislature for some action on packaging which is having so much impact on landfills. Discussion ensued regarding the impact of plastics on the environment, possibly having a Bottle Bill, fighting the lobbyists, etc., and Mayor Macht displayed a sample of a bio- degradable plastic bag made by Star Plastics. Director Pinto emphasized that we must set our sites on a reasonable recycling average and work towards that, taking into consideration those places that can't do it for some reason. It all comes down to what the people are willing to pay for the service. At this time, the deadline set for requiring 30% recycling is July 1, 1989, but he felt the important thing is setting up something that will work and work right. Chairman Scurlock advised that Director Pinto is coming to come to the Board to expand the scope of service for our master plan, and he felt the City staff should have input on that and express their concerns. Mayor Macht asked if the Council members and the Board members were in accord on directing Acting Administrator Collins and City Manager Little to schedule time for whatever discussions are necessary, and there was a consensus from both the Council and Board members. City Manager Little brought up the need to start almost immediately some kind of speaking bureau to go to the various civic clubs and acquaint the public with what we are facing and what some of the options may be. Director Pinto agreed this is important; he advised he has been doing this and will continue. 7 NOV 1?1988 BOOK 75 E 199 DOWNTOWN REDEVELOPMENT Mayor Macht referred to the Advisory group assembled to help deal with the downtown redevelopment and informed those present that by consensus at a recent Council meeting, and in view of the Board's needs to build a central governmental complex, the City Council has agreed to formalize in the area of the downtown designated as the redevelopment area a maximum building height of 72', plus 15' for appurtenances. Commissioner Eggert expressed concern that this height might also be allowed in shopping centers, but City Planning Director Walter Young confirmed that this increased height would be allowed only in the downtown redevelopment area, which actually is the only C -2A designation in the City. He described the limits of the C -2A District for the benefit of those present. Mayor Macht directed the Planning Director to send maps of the redevelopment area to the county and advised that he wanted the county to be aware of the height limitation as obviously it would affect the plan and design of their proposed governmental complex. Commissioner Wheeler reported that the Commission accepted the space needs study for the Courthouse, and we are going to be requesting proposals for architects and trying to coordinate with the Finance Committee and their recommendation of a 14 sales tax. Chairman Scurlock explained that we have asked each Commis- sioner on their committees to come up with a dollar figure over a period of time for their particular area of expertise - i.e., Commissioner Eggert with the Health Building, Commissioner Wheeler with the court facilities, the next phase of the Jail, etc. - so we can put a package together. With the court facility plan, we came up with about 12 million; Phase III of the Jail around 5 million; the Health Building 31-4 million. One big problem is that we are considerably short with the impact fees that are needed to acquire the necessary R/W to build our infrastructure. 8 NOV 1 7 1988 800K ib ME 200 The Chairman continued that for the capital programs for the things we know we have to build, we would be looking at 11-2 mills of debt service in your tax bill, and so, it was felt a very positive approach would be to propose a 14 sales tax to the general public in March in orderto provide a source of revenue to take this out of ad valorem taxes. We will form a speaking bureau on this to educate the public. City Manager Little noted that in the early days when you talked about the courthouse, you were talking about the center of government; now when you are talking about a courthouse, it appears you are talking about a judicial center. Commissioner Wheeler explained that the concept is a central complex to include the Clerk, the judiciary, the State's Attorney, the Public Defender, etc. Chairman Scurlock further advised that we originally thought of placing the Health Department Building behind our Administra- tive complex, and we are still thinking along those lines. We have acquired much of the land in the Spillway area and are continuing our efforts in that direction. In addition, there has been some very preliminary dialogue with the School Board in terms of them possibly acquiring more space in our building, which might in the future allow us to move more of our facilities to the downtown area. There also has been some discussion in regard to acquiring more space around the current Health Department Building. Over all, there has been a great deal of discussion going on relating to the downtown area, and he believed the concept we are talking about is a campus type setting with a flow between the courtyards. Commissioner Eggert reported that we have the architect for the Library on board now, and there are two things that concern her, which we will be bringing to the City. One involves a sewer pipe running down the middle of the property and an alleyway that may require some abandonment. There also has been some talk about the possibility of abandoning a section of 22nd St. to be NOV 1? 1988 9 BOOK 201 used in the future for a walkway or parking. She would like to work very closely with the City on this. City Manager Little confirmed that as soon as there are even rough details, the City will staff this and get back to them. Councilman Winchester advised that 13 people have been made members of the Advisory Board to the Community Redevelopment Agency. Those people will act as the planning and zoning agency for the Community Redevelopment Agency and additionally will act as a sounding board on things such as just brought up re closing streets, etc. He stressed that they are not in any way supplanting the traditional Planning and Zoning function, which is chaired by Jay Smith, but if the regulations that are drafted get approved, they will offer someone like the county, for example, who wants to come in and build a large complex, the option of going through the traditional planning and zoning process, or they will be able to go to the Community Redevelopment planning and zoning agency. The reasons they are doing it that way is to provide some opportunities for creativity and imagination and accept the fact that doing business the same old way as it has been done for many years hasn't gotten us out of the bind we are in, and if we are going to really succeed down there, we need to look at things in a different way than we have in the past. Commissioner Bird inquired what the City is doing towards revitalization of the downtown area. He believed one of the major things we will need will be traffic flow, and also parking and other support facilities, restaurants, etc. He asked what the City sees as their goal in this. Planning Director Young, speaking as Director of the Community Redevelopment Agency, stated that the primary goal is a circulation plan which will bring together both our engineering staffs to determine what streets are necessary to accomplish this. This plan must be based on future needs. He asked if the NOV 17 1988 1 0 izOOK 75 PAGE 202 L_ county felt the 72' height limit they are suggesting is an acceptable limitation downtown. Commissioner Wheeler believed with the additional 15' for the roof section, you can get 5 stories and felt it would be acceptable, but did not feel he could say for sure until the architect reviews this. Mayor Macht felt it is obvious this will have to be nailed down on one end or the other; so, he suggested, if the Council concurs, that they charge the City Planner and the CRA Executive Director to get with the City Attorney and start the process of putting that on the books as legislation. He felt it would be advisable in doing this to go through both the Advisory Board and the P&Z Board, talk to the architects, and produce something the Council can vote on. The Council had no objections. Discussion ensued regarding the importance of having sufficient parking, possibly under -the -building parking, elevated parking, etc. City Manager Little announced that the City is now a little closer than ever to disposing of their diesel plant, actually the engines in the diesel plant, not the building itself, and if the county should have any interest in this, please let staff know or else they will put it on the public market. They hope to be moving out of the Public Works Building in the early summer to Airport West and that piece of property will be available. County Commissioners generally agreed they would have some interest. Mayor Macht talked of the possibility some years down the road of the county and city occupying the same building, which he felt would be in the interests of the taxpayer. He noted we are already moving together in recreation concepts. Chairman Scurlock believed our biggest constraint is whether the School Board could fully utilize the county building. He foresaw a useful life for that building for a long time. 11 LritOV 171988 BOOK 75 PAGE 203 Mayor Macht noted that he just brought this up to think about for the future, and Commissioner Eggert agreed it is something we must consider as we look into the future. City Manager Little believed in ten or more years there should be a central governmental complex, but he noted the City will be moving into the area where the City Police move out, and he hoped the City will be able to fit where they are for another ten years. TRAFFIC MATTERS Mayor Macht thanked the County Commission for supporting the City in their efforts to locate the bridge where they feel it should be located. City Manager Little expressed his fears that we are facing an up -hill battle to get the state to put the bridge where we would like it to go, and City Engineering Director Suthard stressed that it is very important that the City have some update on the Boulevard North extension R/W acquisition and implementa- tion schedule, especially before the public hearing with the DOT at the end of January. County Public Works Director Jim Davis reported that he met with the EPA yesterday in Atlanta. They have review status on the Corps permit for the Boulevard extension. The EPA prefers the alignment that was developed in '79 and '80 when Reynolds, Smith & Hills was the consultant. The county has been working with Mr. Hoffman's consultants, who prefer an alternate alignment which is about 200' east. Appraisals on both alignments should be ready in about two weeks. After meeting with the EPA, Director Davis felt we should meet with the property owners and strongly recommend they cooperate with us on the 1980 alignment. Chairman Scurlock noted that if they don't agree the other option is a quick taking action, and he stressed the most important concern is to build the road. 12 NOV 17 1988 BOOK 75 wE 204 Director Davis described the 1980 alignment which is the westernmost that utilizes the western dike of Impoundment #22, and there is about a 7% difference in fill in utilizing that alignment as opposed to the one Mr. Hoffman is requesting. While the real decision rests with the Corps of Engineers, other agencies have review status, and if the Corps issued the permit and did not take their comments into consideration, the EPA could appeal all the way to Washington. The agencies have indicated they would work with us on the 1980 alignment. The other issue is acquiring the 106 acre impoundment to mitigate the filling in the R/W; however, if the necessity issue on the impoundment did not hold up in court, the EPR indicated they would work with us on another site to mitigate the project. City Manager Little noted that if we get into a challenge, we may be fighting about it 5 years from now, and the Chairman stated that is why he favors taking the alignment they are willing to approve, proceeding with the quick taking, and moving ahead with the Boulevard extension; otherwise we still could be talking about it 15 years from now. Discussion ensued re what the City can do to help, and Acting Administrator Collins believed we really need to input to the city exactly where that alignment is that the EPA will approve and how it will affect the adjoining property that the City is considering changes on. City Manager Little asked for a quick update on the Twin Pairs, and City Engineering Director Suthard advised that the consultants for FDOT are planning to finish the design in January. If funds are available, they hope to start letting the project for construction this coming summer; otherwise, it could go over to the following summer. Chairman Scurlock wondered if there is any ability for the local community to front some of the money and then have those dollars repaid when the funds are available. Mr. Suthard did not know. 13 NOV 17 1988 BOOK 75 PAGE 205 City Manager Little wished to know if there is anything going on with the East Causeway/A-1-A intersection. Mr. Suthard advised there is nothing on the 5 -year plan. The City is finishing some traffic studies on A -1-A and has found that we have a lot higher traffic flow there than anticipated. They will advise the DOT of their studies, and hopefully that will encourage them to fast-track that project. Discussion continued about better markings on the pavement to improve the traffic flow at that intersection. Commissioner Wheeler brought up resurfacing Route 60, and was informed this will be included with the Twin Pairs project. WASTEWATER Vero Beach Treatment Plant Capacity City Manager Little reported that the City has finally gotten all the package treatment plants on the island within the City limits out of service. They are rebuilding lift stations in Indian River Shores and have already rebuilt the lift stations in The Moorings and will do some line rejuvenation work there. They do not anticipate sewer in some areas on the Beach as the percolation is good there, and it is all single family. City Manager Little requested that the county not make any more plans after today, beyond those things they have legally committed to in writing, for flow into the City wastewater treatment plant until the City can complete a study to see where they will be on build -out. What triggered this was an approach from Mr. Pinto's staff wanting to have a larger line and some other facilities as part of the reconstruction they are doing at the plant now. Also, there are rumors about running the line down U.S.I, and Mr. Little did not think the City can accommodate that flow. He felt that when build -out occurs in the area east of 6th Avenue and down to Vista Royale that will be about as far as they can go. 14 N9V 171988 BOOK 75 ,J:200 Director Pinto commented that one of the problems we have had even with our master plan is the question of capacity in the City treatment plant. We are not sure what capacity the City has, and now the City has indicated they are not sure either. However, we can't take the position that we have to stop development in the south county. Director Pinto felt what the City may not understand is that the construction of the line from the City plant along the Boulevard and south on U.S.I is one that is being designed to handle the existing flow that goes into the City plant, and any additional flow up to whatever capacity, but our design is such that the entire flow going into the City will be able to be reversed and taken south into a south county plant, possibly the GDC plant, if we have to purchase that, or we are prepared to build whatever is necessary to take care of the needs in the South County. The master plan indicates that engineering - wise, it may be best to look at whether the city ever wants to expand their facility, but the county still is a bit bothered about the absence of re -use of effluent, and we simply don't have the luxury of waiting much longer to determine what the City's final capacity is. We have to proceed with the construction of the force main as indicated in the master plan. Chairman Scurlock believed it is our common goal to maximize the use of the capacity of the City's plant, and emphasized that we want to continue to use whatever capacity is made available by the City. City Manager Little noted that he was just concerned that if the county continues as they seem to be at present, the City plant would be over -committed. Director Pinto confirmed that there is no question in our minds that the development of the South County far exceeds the total capacity of the City plant; so, the master plan indicates certain possibilities. We are going to proceed with a South County wastewater plant, and the ultimate capacity will be determined by what flow the City wants to keep. NOV 12 1988 L. 15 Boor 75 P E 207 City Manager Little expressed concern about the time frame, and Director Pinto pointed out that first the City has to give us numbers on their capacity and then we can give them a time. He advised that he is prepared to go to the County Commission immediately to start planning for a plant, and reiterated that the line is being designed so the flow can be turned around. Discussion ensued re possibilities of interconnection, and Director Pinto advised that we will tie in to the Vista Royale plants to have something as backup in case of a shut down. City Water & Sewer Manager Hillman Goff advised that the average daily flow into the City plant at present is 3 million gallons, and they have committed permits out right now for 1.625 million gallons, which exceeds their plant capacity. Director Pinto advised that the county flows are around 500-600,000 gallons, and City Manager Little stressed that they are saying please don't rely on those 600,000 gallons because they believe the areas they have taken over on the Beach as part of the old Tripartite Agreement will produce more flow than anyone anticipated. Mayor Macht discussed the possibility of allowing some temporary capacity, and Director Pinto then brought up the 400,000 gallons dedicated to the Hospital. The county has lines right in that area, and he asked if it wouldn't make sense to take that Hospital flow and put it in the nearest treatment plant and then put the needs of the South County which are nearest the South County plant in that plant. City Manager Little advised that the Hospital flow is about 200,000 gallons, and Director Pinto asked if the City is notifying the Hospital there is no more capacity. City Manager Little stated they are not because there is an agreement on that, and he felt the argument as to where the Hospital flow goes is a legal matter between the City Attorney and the County Attorney. NOV 17 1988 16 BOOK 75 FADE 208 Director Pinto emphasized that if the City will just tell us what their plant limits will be, then under our master plan, staff can tell the County Commission what we need to do. Mayor Macht again expressed his belief that we need staff to get together on these matters more often, and he hoped that the Commission would encourage the new Administrator when he comes on Board to formalize some sort of a staff reconciliation so we don't go off on divergent directions. Chairman Scurlock pointed out that we have complete master plans which are available, and he felt we should convey all our master plans to the City for them to review. Director Pinto stressed that he did not want anyone to think that we have not been communicating with the City. Our plan is completed except for how much flow the City can take; we are not working with blinders on. Chairman Scurlock commented that it is always a matter of turf. We can't let the City design our master plan, and we can't design the City plant. Mayor Macht continued to urge quarterly City/County meetings. BEACH RESTORATION Councilman Winchester reported that the Beach study is continuing and they expect to complete the studies on schedule. Mr. Zorc's request for an injunction was denied by Judge Smith; he gave Mr. Zorc ten days to amend his complaint and then the City has 20 days to respond. Mr. Winchester found it ironic that the "Conserve Our Resources" group was the one who demanded these studies be done and now they are trying to kill the studies. He stressed that the City is going to continue with studies to accomplish saving the beaches in a way compatible with the environment. 17 NOV 1Z 1988 BOOK 75 F1GE 2O9 City Manager Little discussed the funding for the studies and believed there has been some confusion and paranoia on both sides. George Gross, Coastal Resource Project Manager for the City, reported that the environmental study is in three phases. The first step is to analyze the data taken by the Corps to see if our consultant agrees. The consultant has received a pile of documents which finds some good sand and some bad sand. It has been agreed that if we do not have good quality sand, we will not proceed any further. City Manager Little clarified that there have been some restorations that did the job, but the material put on the beach made walking on it quite uncomfortable and we don't want that kind of sand. We are striving for a high quality sand; it looks as if we have some problems, and we are delving into them. Mr. Gross advised that the second phase is looking at the reefs or rock out-croppings. Reefs are living organisms, and the Corps says these are not living reefs; they are rock out-croppings. First of all, we need to know where they are; they are now being charted and when we know specifically where they are, we will send out divers and determine just what kind of marine life and marine growth is around them. These studies are very dependent on the weather as we must have clear water in order to take both still life and video photos. The DNR needs this information in order to make a recommendation to the Governor as to whether we should be considered for budgeting the project. City Manager Little reported that the City staff is doing their own turbidity sampling and went on to express his irrita- tion with those who ask why the City has considered nothing other than sand pumping. He emphasized that they have looked at every other alternative they know of. As to the new DuPont reef, this is so recent there is no scientific basis as to whether it is successful or not. 18 NOV 1 1988 BOOK 75 FA _ E. 210 Mr. Gross advised that the consultant flew along the coast taking pictures of the DuPont reef to see whether the waves were breaking over the underwater breakwater and whether or not the breakwater is in position or being moved around. They are looking into this not necessarily as an alternate, but with the view of possibly putting one in to protect the beach after the sand is put on. City Manager Little noted that it would be nice if we were in the driver's seat, but the Corps is putting up 5 million and we have to convince them an alternate is worth spending their money on unless we want to put all the money up locally. Councilman Winchester believed there is some misconception that we have a construction designed project on the books ready to go, and that is not true. What we have is a conceptual project which we have taken to the government and was authorized by Congress in 1986 and partially funded in '87 and '88. The studies we are doing now will be all put together, and when we find out if we can or can't do a project, we will then go into specific construction requirements. At the present we have a conceptual design only. There were no comments from the public. RECREATION Round Island Park Commissioner Bird reported that the Commission at the last meeting authorized closing Round Island Park at the same hours we close our other parks, and we are in the process of putting up barricades and gates so it can be secured. Part of that decision was based on the City taking a step towards making part of Memorial Island Park available to the young people in the evening. He felt that is a tremendous step and hoped it will work. NOV 17 1988 19 BOOK 7b EVA 211 Teen Council and Park Improvements Mayor Macht announced that 4 o'clock this afternoon the first meeting of the Teen Council will take place. The City is going to charge them with their responsibilities and expectations and exchange some ideas on what they would like to see done and the practicalities of administering the program. He invited everyone to attend. Commissioner Bird requested that City staff send notice when these meetings are going to be held. City Engineering Director Cliff Suthard reported that they hope to have the new Memorial Park area open before the holiday school vacation at Christmas. They cannot make it by Thanksgiving. City Manager Little advised that the architect is working on what is to be known as "River House," which is a building the City owns on the waterfront by the launching ramps. They plan to pave and landscape there and use it for a teen center on weekends. During the week, it will be a rental facility similar to the Bethel Creek House. They want the Teen Council to be involved with the architects and hope to have that open by summer when school is out. Mayor Macht agreed that we want to help the teenagers, but emphasized that nobody relieves the parents of their obligation to help make this work and see that the law is complied with. NEXT JOINT MEETING Mayor Macht asked those present to consider having the next City/County meeting on Thursday, February 16th, and after some discussion, that date was agreed upon with the meeting to be held at the County Administration Building. There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at 11:50 o'clock A.M. NOV 17 1988 20 BOOK 75 PAGE 212