HomeMy WebLinkAbout8/8/1989 (3)Tuesday, August 8, 1989
The Board of County Commissioners of Indian River County,
Florida, met in Special Session with the Vero Beach City Council
in the First Floor Conference Room of the County Administration
Building, 1840 25th Street, Vero Beach, Florida, on Tuesday,
August 8, 1989, at 1:30 o'clock P.M. Present were Gary C.
Wheeler, Chairman: Carolyn K. Eggert, Vice Chairman: Richard N.
Bird; Margaret C. Bowman; and Don C. Scurlock, Jr. Also present
were James E. Chandler, County Administrator; William G. Collins,
11, Asst. County Attorney; and Virginia Hargreaves, Deputy Clerk.
Present from the City of Vero Beach were Mayor Kenneth
Macht, Councilwoman Molly Beard, and Councilmen Kevin Doty and
Michael Wodtke. Absent was Councilman Vernon Krause. Also
present were City Manager, John Little, and James Wilson, Asst.
City Attorney.
Chairman Wheeler called the meeting to order and asked that
the first item on the agenda be addressed.
Possible Use of Physical Arts Center Building—for Jury Selection
Administrator Chandler advised that the County has been
looking at space in the Florida Federal Building as well as the
Pocahontas Building, and have now learned that the Physical Arts
Center Building may be a third alternative. THere has been some
very preliminary brief discussion about this with City Manager
Little, but we have not gone into any details regarding cost and
are still considering all three buildings.
City Manager Little commented that, as to when the City
would move out of the Physical Arts Center, the City staff has
just gotten the
final report on the proposed renovations
to the
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"Y" and what it will cost, and that facility probably will open
some time in February. He noted that the County gave the City
the jail, and he felt the City should retaliate. City staff did
not have any problem with letting the County use the Physical
Arts Center with the Council's blessing, but he believed the
County should take a hard look at that building to see whether
they would want it or not. Everything in it is antiquated, but
it could be used.
Question arose about the historical significance of the
Physical Arts Center, and Millie Bunnell of the Historical
Society advised that it was built in several different sections,
and part was added by the WPA. It always was the community
center and it was a significant social meeting place during the
war years.
Chairman Wheeler believed if there is no objection, we could
look into possible use of that building as one of our three
options. There were no objections.
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Proposed Firearms Range
Commissioner Bird just wished to bring everyone up to date.
He reviewed the frustrating history of trying for the last 5
years to find a suitable location for a firing range that could
be used by the Sheriff and his personnel and also by the public
with proper supervision. The original site suggested by St.
John's River Water Management District did not work out, and very
few private property owners are interested in having a firing
range on their lands. A site that is located on the north side
of SR 60 just east of 20 Mile Bend has come to the forefront
within the last few months. Although we would prefer something
larger, this is on land that is available at this time. It does
run north to south, which is preferred for shooting, and it is
bordered by a swamp and a big mining operation.
Commissioner Bird advised that the Committee has worked with
the Sheriff on a design. The plan is that there will be one road
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coming in from SR 60, and the intent is to have an area leading
off that road that is secured for the Sheriff's purposes with
about 5 shooting ranges of various lengths and a separate section
for an obstacle course. The public would proceed on north past
that location to the public rifle range that also could be used
for skeet shooting at certain times. The conceptual plan is
designed to have all shot fall within the property, and St.
John's staff have indicated they will recommend this site be made
available to the County and will attempt to assist us in
construction of the range facilities. We have asked them how
much of the construction they would be willing to take part in
and are exploring grants through the NRA, the Fish & Wildlife
Commission and other agencies. He noted that St. John's is
working on a larger plan to take 10/12,000 acres in this area and
make it available to the public for outdoor recreational
activities - camping, fishing, etc.
Commissioner Bird noted that the County has been told that
the City is going to make some major improvements in the City's
range, but it is the general consensus that we should move ahead
full speed on both facilities.
City Manager Little reviewed the history of the City's
range, explaining that the Police Benevolent Association leased
it from the City for a dollar a year, and the buildings there
were done by private donation and PBA labor. The lease has been
extended and renewed several times over the years. About two
months ago, it came to the City's attention that the range was
unsafe, and Police Chief Gabbard wanted it closed immediately.
It was closed to the public and anyone other than someone
shooting under the supervision of a law enforcement officer. Mr.
Little continued that the PBA lease still has some time to run.
a It was intimated to them that what is required to bring the range
up to snuff would have to be done correctly and would require a
considerable investment. Nothing was done for a while, and it
now appears that their main concern was having access to the
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grounds and to their clubhouse for picnicking, etc. It was
suggested that Attorney Wilson draw up an agreement providing for
some limited access for them, and the City could take over the
lease. Although the actual agreement has not been drawn up as
yet, City Manager believed that they have reached an amicable
agreement regarding the range, and it will go on the Council
agenda.
Mr. Little noted that the other problem with the City's
range is that although it is reasonably close in and more con-
venient, he suspects that 15 years from now, it will be in the
middle of a built-up area or the Airport will have had to acquire
that property to protect flight zones. As to whether or not it
would be a good idea to make a larger investment in the range, he
believed if the City can get the lease straightened out, it might
be a good short range interim arrangement for small arms fire.
Chief Gabbard was talking about $100,000 for an indoor firearms
range in a future budget, but there are no plans for that at
present.
Councilman Wodtke pointed out that the State of Florida has
taken over the issuing of concealed weapon permits. A lot of
people in the county have permits that are expiring, and they do
not have anywhere for their class instruction. He believed we
need to do something about this and hoped this can be addressed
shortly.
City Manager Little did not anticipate that the City range
would be available for that type of thing for at least 6-7
months, and he understood the Correction Institute's range is
just available for law enforcement.
Sheriff Dobeck advised that the College is using that range
also because they have a considerable investment in it. He
stressed that his problem is scheduling. This year he will be
required to train about 4,000 man hours, and they are running
into a big liability situation. He further noted that the
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present range would not be suitable for automatic weapons and
continued to emphasize the liability potential.
City Manager Little stated that the City will try to
expedite opening their range as much as possible, and Commis-
sioner Bird felt it will be at least a year before having the
range the County is proposing.
Mayor Macht believed it has been determined there is nothing
that would be mutually exclusive of either project and that both
should move ahead. This was generally agreed upon.
Downtown Redevelopment Area
Administrator Chandler gave an overview of the County's two
major projects, noting the Library and Courthouse are both on
schedule. On the main Library we are nearing final design and
anticipate coming back to the Commission in about 30-60 days with
construction to begin in November and completion of the building
within 1 year. In regard to the Courthouse, we have completed
the consultant selection process and are now in the process of
negotiating with Herbert Halback, Inc. We are looking at having
a master plan completed in the fall and then retaining an
architect for final design next spring with construction in 1991
and final completion in 1993. We are asking the consultant to
work closely with the City on any plans re downtown parking,
traffic circulation, etc. Administrator Chandler stated that we
have had good dialogue back and forth with Planning Director
Walter Young and City Manager Little, and our consultant will be
coordinating with the City. Parking is a critical element, and
we are asking them to bring back several alternatives.
Mayor Macht inquired if there is any relationship between
the Courthouse Complex and a future building for the County
administration.
Administrator Chandler stated that there was none that he
knew of. He will, however, be looking at some of the County's
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internal needs in the next few months as we are rather tight for
space.
Mayor Macht continued to discuss the possibility of a new
government administration building, and Chairman Wheeler believed
there was some talk at one time about a County/City building.
Commissioner Scurlock pointed out that one of the problems
we face is that the County renovated the present Administration
Building at 8 million plus, and he believed it would be difficult
just to walk away from this building. We must find a reasonable
use for this building before we can justify moving into a twin
pair government building downtown.
Mayor Macht believed that we should look at the concept of a
joint government facility in the ZO year range.
Commissioner Scurlock stated that he would ask at the
Commission level that we direct Administrator Chandler to proceed
with a space RFP to look at all our needs. He noted that we have
an enterprise fund in the Building Department, and he believed
there are some dollars available and would support having a
complete space analysis done.
Some discussion arose regarding when the School Board lease
might expire, but Administrator Chandler advised that it is a 30
year lease which was executed in 1979, and there is a 10 year
option for renewal.
City Manager Little interjected at this point that he and
Administrator Chandler get along just fine, and he finds Mr.
Chandler far and away the best man the County has had. As to
where the City is heading, he and Jim Chandler have agreed to
staff some of these things and see where they take us. The City
has spent a lot of money to renovate City Hall; they now have the
new police station and will renovate the area the police just
moved out of. So, the City also has an investment they have to
live out, but he did believe that at some point, they will live
it out, and at that point, we should be talking about a
government complex where the taxpayer can go non-stop shopping.
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If the County decides to do a space study, he felt it might be
well if the City and County both used the same consultant.
City Manager Little commented that Administrator Chandler
had asked him whether the City might have any need to lease the
old Library building which belongs to the County. He advised Mr.
Chandler that the City does not have a need for it and suggested
that if the County doesn't have a need for it, that they market
it and use the money to put more books in the new libraries. He
further advised that the 19th Avenue abandonment is on the City
Agenda for August 15th and there are no objections from Southern
Bell or anyone; so, he saw no problems with it. He believed the
library is on go and did not know of any problems with the
courthouse.
City Planning Director Young suggested that whatever con-
sultants the County is using tie together with the City in
working with that 6 block downtown area. They want to make sure
the skeletal system of streets stays in place.
Administrator Chandler agreed that the 6 block area is
critical regarding traffic circulation and flow.
Commissioner Scurlock believed if we are going to look at
traffic, the critical issue is the parking, and he wondered if
there is any interest in a joint City/County effort to build a
central parking facility.
City Manager Little noted that the YMCA will be open in
February, and that will take the recreation activities out of
the Physical Arts Center, which will alleviate some of the
parking. They are also moving everything out of the old White
Elephant Building behind Alma Lee's and will be recommending that
be torn down to create additional parking, but that will be only
about 15 spaces. He did feel it might be wise to consider a
joint central parking facility.
Mr. Little then discussed future plans for the City's diesel
plant and also advised that Public Works is going to move. They
have had the ground breaking for that project and hope to be able
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to move out of the old location in about 10 months. He believed
at one time there was some county interest in acquiring that
property.
Mayor Macht inquired about a mechanism for getting together
with the county on a joint parking structure, and Mr. Young felt
that could be opened up with the CRA.
Commissioner Scurlock brought up the idea not only of joint
participation in such a facility, but also privatizing part of
it, and it was generally agreed that would be a good idea.
Commissioner Bird inquired about any downtown redevelopment
activity, and City Planning Director Young that nothing much was
going on. They were looking to have money from the private
level, and the money wasn't there to get a master plan done. The
City is going to put it in their budget this year.
Commissioner Bird believed the City and County are both
working toward downtown redevelopment, but felt that we need
participation from the private sector. He noted that
unfortunately the downtown redevelopment effort in Fort Pierce
hasn't worked out.
Mr. Young felt that the County's commitment has contributed
to the stability of the Vero Beach downtown property, and Commis-
sioner Scurlock believed when we actually get the court facility
there, it will solidify this.
Discussion continued regarding a cooperative effort, and
Mayor Macht was of the opinion that if Alternative #3 is approved
for the Barber Bridge, that will have a positive impact on the
downtown area.
Some concern was expressed that the planned Twin Pairs
project doesn't result in bisecting the downtown area. City
Manager Little reported that the Twin Pairs project is on
schedule, but the DOT still doesn't have any money. He further
reported that he has had staff meetings with Administrator
Chandler regarding the Merrill Barber Bridge and believed that is
going along better than we realize.
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Commissioner Bird asked if the consensus is to do something
with the peninsula that would be left at the present bridge
entrance to make it into a nice shopping area, and it was
confirmed that is the general idea. The dream is to have a
covered fishing pier on the east, and also possibly have a pier
on the west side and work in conjunction with private enterprise
to lease it out as a waterfront restaurant, boutiques, etc. On
the peninsula area to the east, the center road between the
existing stores could be turned into landscaped parking with a
loop access road.
Recreation Agreement
City Manager Little noted that in view of the $450,000 to
purchase the "Y" and more to remodel; Charles Park; Young Park;
$100,000 on River House for remodeling - they have a very big
ticket. The General Fund cannot continue to pick up that fund,
and he felt the time has come where we have to give serious
consideration to some kind of joint recreation. The City is
grateful for the County's significant increase in contribution,
but it is still a drop in the bucket. He realized the County is
spending money in the Oslo Road area and on the beaches which
will take off some impact, but he really thought we need to talk
about joint operation. We did this with Building and Zoning, and
it has worked. We did it with the Fire District, and as far as
the City is concerned, it worked well. He believed what the
County is going through now with ALS, etc., was bound to happen
and was long overdue. Mr. Little stressed that we need to sit
down and remove the roadblocks in the old agreement, if there are
any, so what needs to happen can happen.
Mr. Little noted that the City had handled recreation for a
very long time, and they were reluctant to give this up because
frankly, they did not think the County knew what they were doing.
They also weren't sure the custodial care would be what the City
has done.
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Commissioner Scurlock commented that if Mr. Little is
talking both Parks and Recreation, he felt the Parks aspect
should remain separate because he is sure the county could not
give the same level of service that the City does.
Commissioner Bird believed right now we are getting very
close in regards to recreation, and he felt it can work where the
City continues to own and operate and maintain facilities at the
level they want, and we will do the best we can to develop
programs and consolidate under a countywide program.
Mr. Little believed that both he and Mr. Chandler would like
to be ordered to work on this and make it a priority before next
year's budget comes up.
Commissioner Scurlock suggested setting it up as an enter-
prise fund as he really sees that as the way to go.
Mr. Little agreed we can't continue to ask the City taxpayer
to go on funding this alone, and we need to develop an interlocal
agreement and get on with a joint enterprise fund for Recreation.
Commissioner Bird and Eggert also concurred that Adminis-
trator Chandler should be charged with working on such an
agreement, and it was generally agreed it should be an enterprise
fund.
Mayor Macht believed we must realize that the school system
may want to be in on this also.
Chairman Wheeler believed this is the end of today's Agenda,
but Commissioner Scurlock asked to be allowed to add an item
regarding Solid Waste. There were no objections.
Solid Waste Disposal
Commissioner Scurlock advised that Councilman Wodtke came to
him with a concern, and it appears there is some misunderstanding
in terms of what we are doing regarding solid waste. He ex-
plained that we have a master plan and have hired consultants to
look at every viable option; we are continuing to receive input
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and proposals from the private sector, and those proposals are
continuing to be evaluated. Most of these are pipe dreams; some
are realities, but at very excessive costs. What he wanted to
say today is that the county, through him as liaison with the
Utilities Department and Jim Chandler as Administrator, have
continued to stay in contact with our consultant and are
continuing to receive every proposal out there, but the bottom
line is cost effectiveness. He noted that we do have two more
cells available in the Landfill.
Utilities Director Pinto further reported that we have seen
6 proposals at the Tri -County Council, which is now a quad county
organization, and have looked at everything from mass burn to
composting, etc. We will keep watching and when it is time to go
one of those directions, we will be the first to recommend it.
Recycling is here, and we are looking at every alternative
possible to get a viable and working program for the county. We
have a diversified county, ranging from the lowest of the low
income groups to the highest, and you cannot address those
entities in the same way. We have applied some band aids and
expect more before the final cure.
Mr. Little noted that sludge disposal and solid waste
weren't on the agenda because he and Mr. Chandler jointly agreed
those subjects should be staffed first.
Councilman Wodtke believed the Mayor and Council just want
to be sure that both staffs are together on this, and Mr.
Chandler confirmed that they are working together.
Mr. Little advised that he and Administrator Chandler agreed
that it would be wise to have joint City/County staff meetings
every several months.
There being no further business, the meeting adjourned at
3:05 o'clock P.M.
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