HomeMy WebLinkAbout2016-185CVERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
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(Whereupon, the following is an excerpt of
proceedings.)
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: You have 10:30? Okay.
Miss Scott, my apologies, but we have a shade meeting
which is a time -certain event so we have to break up your
portion today and I've got a paragraph to read before we
go into the shade meeting.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Well, she'll be able to
finish up after the shade meeting.
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: Oh, ab -- yeah, absolutely.
We're just interrupting for the shade meeting but we'll go
back here after the shade meeting.
PUBLIC SPEAKER SCOTT: So we're looking at about
an hour and forty-five minutes?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: An hour and a half.
PUBLIC SPEAKER SCOTT: Hour and a half? Oh,
okay. Excellent. Thank you.
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: With that, I'll read the
statement dealing with the shade meeting. This is the
commencement of the attorney/client session. The
estimated time of the closed attorney/client session is 90
minutes. Present at the meeting will be Commissioners
Joseph E. Flescher, Vice Chairman, Wesley S. Davis, Tim
Zorc, Peter D. O'Bryan, and myself, Bob Solari, Chairman;
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also present will be the County Attorney Dylan Reingold,
County Administrator, Jason E. Brown, and a certified
court reporter.
At the conclusion of the closed attorney/client
session, this public meeting will be reopened.
(Whereupon, at 10:31 a.m., a recess was had.)
(Thereupon, at 11:10 a.m., the above -entitled
matter was resumed.)
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: The public meeting is hereby
reopened and the attorney/client session is now
terminated.
(Thereupon, at 11:11 a.m., the excerpt of
proceedings was concluded.)
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BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
INDIAN RIVER COUNTY, FLORIDA
ATTORNEY/CLIENT CLOSE SESSION
IN RE: PETITION FOR ADMINISTRATIVE HEARING CHALLENGING
THE ST. JOHNS RIVER WATER MANAGEMENT DISTRICT'S NOTICE
OF INTENT TO ISSUE ENVIRONMENTAL RESOURCE PERMIT
NO. 135214-2 FOR ALL ABOARD FLORIDA WITHIN SEGMENT DO8
*** SEALED ***
OCTOBER
10:30 a.m.
11:10 a.m.
18, 2016
10:31 a.m.
11:11 a.m.
COUNTY COMMISSION CHAMBERS
COUNTY ADMINISTRATION BUILDING
1801 27TH STREET
VERO BEACH, FLORIDA 32960
IN ATTENDANCE:
Bob Solari, Chairman
Joseph E. Flescher, Vice Chairman
Wesley S. Davis, Commissioner
Peter D. O'Bryan, Commissioner
Tim Zorc, Commissioner
Dylan Reingold, County Attorney
James E. Brown, County Administrator
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VERO BEACH, FLORIDA: OCTOBER 18, 2016
WHEREUPON:
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Well, I just want to thank
all the commissioners and Jason for being here today and
our court reporter. Just going to back us up in the
timeline with respect to the specific issue that we're
talking about today which is the water management
district -- the St. Johns River Water Management District.
So St. Johns River Water Management District
issued a notice of intent to issue their permit on August
the 24th. They had to do some revisions and they issued a
final notice on August the 26th; that started our 21 -day
appeal clock so that ran out on September 16th. So as you
probably didn't realize, that was during a lot of our
break time.
We had a board meeting on the 13th but Jason and
I had to kind of make some quick decisions during the
break. Specifically, the permit is not for the entire
project. It's literally just from Cocoa down to the
St. Lucie County/Indian River County line. So it's
actually a separate permit that's being reviewed than the
section in Martin County and St. Lucie County and they're
actually under a separate district. They're being
reviewed or approved under the South Florida Water
Management District.
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So in order to protect our appellate rights, I
wanted to make sure that we filed something, got it filed,
preserved, then give us the opportunity to come back and
talk in an attorney/client session as to how we wanted to
proceed, not proceed, and direction.
Again, as normally with a client --
attorney/client session, our discussions are limited to
settlement negotiations or strategy sessions relating to
litigation expenses. And I'm really going to be focusing
here on, on litigation expenses.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Can you back up for one
second when you said, This is the portion that includes
Brevard County to the St. Lucie/Indian River County line.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: That is correct.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: And then, south is South
Florida Water Management District --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: -- but the, the issue of
jurisdiction at the Brevard/Orange County line on the 528,
which is part of their path, whose jurisdiction --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: That would still be with
St. Johns but it's a separate issue, a separate permit
issue. This one was just for this north --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: It's a different basin
probably as far as the -- for example, you getting to buy
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mitigation credits, if you --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: You know when you go on
the Beeline to the airport, that bridge --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: That's the St. Johns.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Right. So you begin with
the same water body wetland footprint but maybe they
separated the two --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: No. And the reason why is
on this entire piece you're east of the Atlantic Ridge,
therefore, everything in theory would flow into the lagoon
versus it going into the St. Johns and going out
Jacksonville.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Okay.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: So, therefore, it's the
same governing body that's responsible for it but the
permitting is going to be... it's a... it's a different...
it drains into a different body of water would be the
easiest way to explain it, with it being east of the
Atlantic Ridge, U.S. 1 --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Okay. So east, east of the
ridge. Now, west of the ridge, which is, would take you
528, like, you're leaving Port Canaveral --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: -- you cross over the
ridge --
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COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: -- and you go west until you
come to the Brevard/Orange County line --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: -- because somewhere along
that back path there's a lot of wetlands' issues and all
sorts of stuff.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Uh-huh.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: I'm just trying to get a
mind of who's watching...
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Those, those would be a
separate permit on that issue. I mean, our issue is
simply the permit that was issued was from Cocoa down to
the St. Lucie County/Indian River County line. It was
just a north/south --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Not the new spur that then
goes to the west
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: No.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Yeah. Okay. Okay.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And, and then I'll give you
a little bit more background as to where we are in the
case. Since we filed on August 16th -- or not on August
16, I'm sorry, September 16th. On September 30th, the
item was actually referred to the Division of
Administrative Hearings. You will hear me refer to that
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as DOAH, D -O -A -H.
So what happens, is: You initially file your
petition with the department or the district and then you
request that you have a hearing in front of a DOAH officer
and that is what has happened.
On September 30th, it got referred over to DOAH.
The parties have been working on scheduling hearings since
then. This is going to be a really quick process. We're
looking at dates for hearings in mid-January, even dates
in December have been proposed by some of the parties that
we're talking about -- roughly, a four-day hearing as it
relates -- mid-December as late as late January. So it's
currently now October 18th. This is going to happen real
fast in this case.
Our challenge is really based upon what we
believe is faulty analysis in the wetlands and in the
storm water impacts. We don't feel that all the
appropriate information has been provided to the water
management district nor considered by the water management
district. We just feel it's an .incomplete application.
Our cost that we assume to prosecute a case like
this could be 250- to $300,000 to move forward on this
type of hearing and case. As I stated, it's going to be a
quick process. Once there is a recommended order issued
by the administrative law judge then the agency then would
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have 90 days to accept that ruling, adopt it in part and
the like, so but something would indicate to me that
probably the agency would move a lit bit quicker than the
90 days in the current situation.
So pros and cons as we evaluate sort of the
litigation strategy cost issue:
Pros of the case as we move forward in terms of
the litigation cost, is: We don't waive any arguments.
Something that could happen later on is an attorney for
All Aboard Florida could say, Well, you should have raised
that issue, you know, with regards to the district and you
didn't file your petition, therefore, you've waived your
right to raise this issue about this wetlands' permit or
this storm water issue you, you kind of gave it away, this
isn't the forum for that, Mr. Reingold;
And another positive is that we have the
opportunity for discovery. As you know, we had very
little discovery on... in the federal case and that was on
their financials but we haven't had any discovery really
on the project itself. So this might be able to give us a
window to offer to depose All Aboard Florida
representatives, engineers, consultants, maybe even state
folks as well on that issue. The permit is not final
until this process is completed;
And then, finally, just from a litigation
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standpoint, you end up having All Aboard Florida spread
thin so they're fighting, you know, in one litigation
context they're fighting with regards to St. Lucie County
and Martin County and South Florida, they're... we're
putting up a front. So those are all the different pros.
Cons or downsides, is: It's a very short
process. It's, you know, for anyone who thought this was
going to be a good delay tactic, why don't we attack the
permit and see if that holds them off, you know, I told
you this is going to be January and our hearing is going
to be done, the Judge could issue an order a couple of
weeks later and then the agency's going to have a quick
turnaround. This isn't something that's going to be
through December next year.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Let me ask you a question:
When, when groups of -- and, you know, the only way I can
ask the question may not be directly tied to this but when
you have a group -- let's say, the Dick Baker group that
challenged St. Johns and something to do with a dock
permit, 45th Street barrier or whatever, it seems like
that drug out for a couple of years -- why is this process
in challenging the St. Johns so much shorter?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Was that involving the Corps
or was it just with the district?
COMMISSIONER ZORC: I, I think both but --
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ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And that's what -- Because
we're just talking about here is the district permitting
challenge process.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: But what permitting? Is
this an environmental resource permit that they were
issued?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Yes.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Well, good gosh, this -- I
mean, this is what they challenged us on forever down
there: The boat ramp.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Well, and again, the
differences are going to be: Some of that was pre the
petition, it will be pre the permit being issued so that
there were issues and RAIs, Request For Additional
Information, that were being issued;
The other part was the Corps and we were
attacking the Corps... we're not actually attacking the
Corps, we were working with the district and trying to
work with the Corps to get a permit. And so that's why
those processes took a little longer than just straight up
the district here said: Our permit's issued, we're good
to go.
Just so as a side note, the Army Corps of
Engineers have not issued their permit. And I don't want
to go into too much detail about the Corps' process of the
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like but they do not have a permit from the Army Corps of
Engineers. They just have an environmental permit from --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: And we would... depending
on what comes from that, we would look at challenging
that.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And that would be a separate
analysis. So this is going to be a pretty quick process
from here now that the permit has been issued. And again,
we're setting dates for January. The DOAH judge is
looking to get us moving, looking to get us off center.
The best... I don't know if you guys are
familiar with district permitting challenges. You know,
often times the best thing that you are going to get if
you are in opposition is, they're not going to deny the
permit but they'll probably say: Here's some additional
calculations they're going to have to do; you're going to
have to buy three more wetlands --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Mitigation credits.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: -- credits. Exactly. You
know, those are the types of things. I don't see this as
a: We're going to get this wonderful decision from a DOAH
judge that says permit denied, start from zero, and
they're set back years in the process.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: We got one for the boat
ramp. We won.
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ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Yeah. And as an analogy to
that, that was the situation where we were supporting the
boat ramp, we had the district on our side, and therefore,
it was much easier for us to prosecute with the district
folks and us at the same side of the table as opposed to
in opposition which is where we are today.
COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR BROWN: Pushing a chain.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Exactly.
COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR BROWN: Which you're
saying a win, it's not big -- it's more of a nuisance to
All Aboard Florida, not necessarily --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: It at best is a nuisance.
They may be required to spend more money to do a
particular localized drainage calculations or a particular
fix, you know: Okay, here's what we're going to do for
Indian River County.
And that's the issue that I kind of want to sit
down with you guys and this point and say: This is where
we are; these are the pros and cons; our cost for
litigation expenses could be 250- to 300- using an outside
firm and is it really worth the... is the juice worth the
squeeze as we... as you guys often
say up
on
the desk.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: In
looking
at
now the Eau
Gallie bridge that's going to be replaced and the
Sebastian Bridge that's going to be replaced, would those
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fall more under this permit or this and the... and the
federal permit because which is a better... you know, do
you take a pass on one to save it and go after --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: No. I think we were -- My
opinion on that: The Army Corps. I mean, that's --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: They move slower.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: -- years where you say,
please, slow down, I mean.
(LAUGHS.)
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Yeah. And I don't want to
get too much in the weeds because I could get a challenge
that our shade meeting dove off into another litigation
context as opposed to the --
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: Dylan, let me ask you this --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Yes, sir.
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: -- if this was discovery on
the finance, being inclined to possibly go forward because
I have a strong belief that there's financial information
that could be used to support everything we think about
this project. I don't have the same sense for the
environmental issues. So, I mean, a key would be: What's
the sense on the value of discovering things about the
process with the environmental issues.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: That's a good view.
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: I mean, that would be
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determinate for me but I just don't have it.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Well, and based on that
same thought is the fact that there's a railroad trestle
already there. It used to be dual, double -tracked. And
it's kind of like... it's about, like, what we would look
at an old grove before a development: There is no
environmental significance in an old grove. Therefore,
you know, it's not like being worried about the
environmental impact of a development over the top of the
grove so...
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And this challenge, I think,
I think the issues that we've raised in our petition are
valid; I don't think they've gone through all the hoops; I
don't think they did all the necessary due diligence; and
I don't want anyone who read this record in the future to
believe that, Oh, we filed a bogus claim. I think that we
have very legitimate arguments. I think it's just a cost
benefit analysis discussion that we're having.
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: Aside from the old -- the
environmental things of whether you really think they're
necessary or not or somebody feels they're really
necessary, the other one is you have a better
understanding of how many paths we can at this point we
can go take and then it just a matter of you're going to
have to prioritize those paths. Is this one of the key
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paths or isn't it?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: This would not be a top
priority path. And just so you guys understand, I think
when... you know, I looked to, to get Shubin & Bass on
board several months ago. You know, it was in light of
not having the decision we got in mid-August and I think
that is a game changer in terms of the analysis that we
have in terms of this district permit. And so I think the
issues really have changed. So that's... I, I don't think
this is our strongest card to play today.
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: I guess the only question
this just so -- What if All Aboard Florida finds
alternative financing? So our federal case goes away, do
we have a fallback plan for that? Would this be the
fallback?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Yeah. I mean, clearly, you
have the district permit -- the Army Corps permit is still
out there. I believe there's a Coast Guard issue that
Martin County is dealing with. There are other
environmental issues. I just don't think this is our
strongest one to play.
COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR BROWN: And just an
update: We've spent 1.9 million total so far out of the
2.7 million authorization. We got a little more
authorized than that. But we've got about $800,000 left
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within the authorization that we have awarded.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And so one of the issues I
was coming for is: Do you want to spend a third or to
half on this issue or do you want to hold out to see a
better issue?
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Is there... is there
something minimal we can do at this --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Like, just something we
taking a swipe at it but not dumping --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah.
VICE CHAIRMAN FLESCHER: Like, a $10,000 move?
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And I've been thinking a lot
of -- I mean, you know, I actually did raise that question
with the Shubin & Bass firm and they said, Look, we do
have the ability to maybe scale it back, maybe being 100 -
to 150- range as opposed to the 250- to 300- range. We
could try to -- I won't even say this, but I will raise
the issue.
The idea of handling it in-house, like, Kate and
I doing it is a much different story when Bill and Kate
handled it in-house when we were sitting there at the
table with the water management district folks on our side
and us being able to work together versus the district and
All Board Florida are on the same page and Kate and I are
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throwing stones at it. I, I don't think you're going to
get a lot of bang for your buck.
And the concern I had from that is that turns
into, you know, almost what might be perceived as a loss,
you know: In January we have our hearing, Kate and I do
the best job we can and we go from what's positive
movement in the All Aboard Florida world to now, Oh, the
county just sustained a loss, have the tides turned. And
that's, that's where I was balancing of: Do we start
dialing back the cost, bring it in-house. And again, if
that's the direction you all want us to do, I'm fine with
that.
VICE CHAIRMAN FLESCHER: There was not the
strong punt?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: This is not a strong play.
VICE CHAIRMAN FLESCHER: So a financially
weakened approach --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Is a weaker play on a weaker
play.
VICE CHAIRMAN FLESCHER: Right. And you're not
confident on the full impact of the initial play to begin
with.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And it becomes a time issue,
for instance, and an energy issue with the challenge to
the FDFC case just as a comparison. I knew what that was
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going to be as I would handle it in-house: I'd file one
belief; they'd file one brief; I'll file a response brief;
and then, I'd stand in front of a judge and make my
argument.
I knew that time of effort and time out of me
and Kate was going to be really minimal for what I thought
was going to be a minimal potential win. Talking about a
process that involves discovery and calling witnesses and
bringing in, you know, expert testimony, now you're
talking about Kate and Dylan running around, like, mad
and --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Let me ask you: What's the
chances of getting ahold of the Pelican Island people and
say, Hey, ya'll want this?
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Turn them loose on them.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: The Dick Baker folks.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah. Is that, is that --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: I could reach out to them.
Yeah, I mean, everyone would have to argue their own
standing. I don't know if they can intervene and I can
research that issue at this stage because we've already
filed, it's already gone to DOAH. I know they needed to
have filed within the 21 -day period.
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: What if we designate them
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as our designated pit bull in this process?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: I could research the issue
as to whether that's a way we can handle, you know, the
expenses issue and the time -cost issue.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Versus doing it --
VICE CHAIRMAN FLESCHER: They may be losing
their independent advocacy principles just by --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Peter said they did that a
long time ago.
(LAUGHS.)
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Now, remember here -- Hold
on. Remember, that this is being transcribed --
VICE CHAIRMAN FLESCHER: Don't we have to keep
this to a narrow and fine --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah. I've got one more of
these though --
(LAUGHS.)
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And again, it's been
transcribed by a court reporter and six months after the
litigation is done this will be open to the public for
review.
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: I do have a concern
dumping more on Kate and Dylan --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: Particularly, Kate's
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still being the federal end of All Aboard Florida. We
have legislation starting up here and many weeks and you
can't hardly see her, her desk is piled so high now, not
that I don't think she can do a good job I just think
she's got a lot on her plate to dump this on.
I, I think I'm kind of going where Dylan's
talking that this isn't worth a squeeze. I wish there was
a way we could word it where it sounds like we're winning
even though we're walking away.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Well, and you've given me
the guidance as to what ya'll kind of want to go in terms
of direction and that gives me the sense of: Now I
understand the will of the board and what you guys goals
are. We can handle that.
Kate and I and our outside deal and Jason can
work on that messaging and coordinate with our St. Lucie
County and Martin County folks on how we get that out
there as opposed to just simply: We filed a notice of
withdraw, you know.
COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR BROWN: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Or does the clock just run
out? Is there a step that if you don't do it, just sort
of goes away versus withdrawing something?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: It's not that the clock's
going to run out. I think the Judge is going to be
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looking to us. For instance, right now we're working on
an order: What are our dates; where are we going to have
this; are we going to do have it in Palatka; are we going
to have it in Palm Bay; are we going to have it in
Orlando. So we've got all these little decisions that the
Judge is looking for the parties to work on.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: And what date does he want
those decisions from?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: As soon as possible.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: I was going to say, if he
can wait until the day before he wants them and then --
That's what they do to us so...
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: And we will certainly
coordinate on that direction. I felt it was important to,
at least, file the petition so we could have this
conversation because if we don't then I didn't want you
guys or us
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: No. Thank you. You did
the right thing.
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: Can you tell the outside
counsel, say, Look, spend 25,000 and act like we're going
to court and let's see what All Aboard Florida does with
that?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Well, we are acting like it.
I mean, we've already been referred to DOAH so we're
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already in communications. It's not like --
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: Can we extend that for
another month or two, may not go to court but it's, make
it look like we're getting ready to and see what All
Aboard Florida does?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: I will take that --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: That's a pretty good idea.
It gives... they won't know anything's different and...
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: You know, I think we're
at a tipping point kind of now with the federal decision
and if we just for a couple more months keep our foot on
the pedal.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: And just tell them that we
really got to... we need monthly billings on the last day
of the month so we know what we're spending so we know
when to put the brakes --
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: Yeah. I would still tell
them to cap it at, like, 25-, I mean, don't spend a lot
but file some letters, make... do this -- you know, make
it look like we're gearing up and --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: For them to just ask for
discovery, I would rather have the discovery on hand and
then pull the plug and see what you --
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: But discovery is going to be
the most expensive portion.
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ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Yeah. I mean, you're
preparing for hearing, attending hearings --
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah. That's where you got
George Bill Zeekie (Phonetic) coming in and you've got all
this kind of stuff and then you got, you know --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: You can't put a list of
we'd - like -copies -of, just -a -request, and then do your
deposing?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: I will coordinate with
Shubin & Bass on a way that we can sort of work --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Is there something we can
get in the process that would be preparing for that that
might give us some insight view of --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Well, and I see that more as
a: Just open the window for settlement discussions on
this issue with All Aboard Florida, for instance. So
maybe we sit down with All Aboard Florida and say, Look,
on this district case before we start running to -- what
I'm hearing from you guys is -- before we start running to
discovery hearings and the like, can we kind of talk about
settling this case or at least addressing the issues we've
raised in this as part of the moving forward.
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: I kind of like that
because I think it puts us in a better light. If we say,
Look, do a little more mitigation here for this, do a
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little more mitigation here, do this, and then if they
don't do that, it makes us look better: Listen, we tried
to negotiate this with them and we're just asking for a
little bit more wetland consideration and they said, no.
That puts them in a bad light and that's a fairly cheap
way and it still keeps the pressure on them.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Now, any settlement
discussions are going to be through or part of, you know,
the closed process of, you know, of not disclosing to the
public. But we certainly can reach out to All Aboard
Florida and say, Is there a way for us to settle this
particular issue before we move on.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: And do you have a set of the
plans they applied for and the affected areas of --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: We've got a whole set of
plans, yeah. Rich has re -- he's got a whole set of plans
which we've analyzed and reviewed.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: And the entity that we put
in the... when they gave us their 90 percent plan and it
was missing all the improvements that are in our 10 -year
traffic plan -- turn lanes, sidewalks at 45th Street --
that went to the federal side, right?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: What do you mean, "That
went to the federal"?
COMMISSIONER ZORC: When we said, Look, these
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things aren't on it --
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Oh, yes. That was not part
of this --
COMMISSIONER ZORC: -- Peter was saying he's
getting -- his thing is: We want to get those things
recognized and is this another avenue to get those.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: But that could be part of
the settlement discussion. I mean, nothing stops us from
including, you know, that as part of this.
COMMISSIONER ZORC: Well, that's a good, good
idea. Now, I don't know if you remember last summer DOT
cleaned all the drainage systems from the railroad tracks
and U.S. 1 all straight shots to the lagoon. I'm now
thinking that somehow that was tied together because that
takes the water basin from the railroad track where that
sits and U.S. 1 and most cases those pipes drain the
railroad bed and the U.S. 1 corridor to the lagoon. And
now, the state picked up the tab for 2 million bucks to
clean all those for us.
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: So just to kind of then
summarize so we're all on the same page: We're going to
tell the outside counsel to spend the teeny bit amount of
money, make it look like we're ready to go to court but
then also say, Okay, hey, we want to negotiate a
settlement if you guys agree to some more wetland,
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whatever, then we don't go to court. Does that sound good
to everybody?
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Is that kind of where we're
going?
COMMISSIONER DAVIS: Yeah. Cap at 25,000.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: When I get out of the board
meeting, I will have a conversation with our outside
counsel and give them direction. The one person I haven't
really heard from in here -- Jason, yeah, I haven't heard.
Do you have any comments?
COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR BROWN: I agree with the,
with the direction. It keeps the pressure on. They have
to divert some resources to this. And we can look at to
try to, try to work with them on this so it's good
direction.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: Thank you very much. I
really appreciate everyone being here and giving me this
opportunity --
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: Bob, you good with that?
CHAIRMAN SOLARI: Yes.
COMMISSIONER O'BRYAN: Okay.
ATTORNEY REINGOLD: All right.
(Thereupon, at 11:04 a.m., the above -entitled
matter was concluded.)
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STATE OF FLORIDA )
: SS
COUNTY OF INDIAN RIVER )
CERTIFICATE
I, GREGORY CAMPBELL, Notary Public of the State
of Florida at large, certify that I was authorized to and
did stenographically report the foregoing proceedings and
that the transcript is a true and complete record of my
stenographic notes.
DATED this 7TH day of NOVEMBER, 2016.
GREGORY CAMPBELL, COURT REPORTE
Commission No. EE 9077
My Co ssi
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additional 9:14
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addressing
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advocacy 18:7
agency 6:25 7:3
agency's 8:12
ago 14:5 18:9
agree 24:25
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ahold 17:13
airport 4:3
alternative
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amount 24:22
analogy 11:1
analysis 6:16
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analyzed 23:17
anything's 21:8
appeal 2:13
appellate 3:1
application 6:20
applied 23:14
appreciate
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approach 16:17
appropriate
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approved 2:24
areas 23:14
argue 17:20
argument 17:4
arguments 7:8
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Army9:23 10:1
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asking 23:3
assume 6:21
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attack 8:8
attacking 9:17
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attorney 1:16
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avenue 24:6
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barrier 8:20
based 6:15 13:2
basin 3:24
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benefit 13:18
best 10: 11, 13
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better 12:2
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big 11:10
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bull 18:1
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calling 17:8
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cases 24:16
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certainly 20:13
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changed 14:9
changer 14:7
cheap 23:5
claim 13:16
clean 24:19
cleaned 24:12
clearly 14:16
client 3:6
clock 2:13 19:21
clock's 19:24
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closed 23:9
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come 3:3 5:3
comes 10:4
coming 15:3
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correct 3:14
corridor 24:17
cost 6:21 7:6,8
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couple 8:11,21
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deal 19:15
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decision 10:21
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decisions 2:17
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delay 8:8
denied 10:22
deny 10:14
department 6:3
depending 10:3
depose 7:21
deposing 22:8
designate 17:25
designated 18:1
desk 11:22 19:3
detail 9:25
determinate
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development
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dialing 16:10
Dick 8:18 17:17
differences 9:12
different 3:24
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diligence 13:14
direction 3:5
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DOAH 6:1,4,6
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doing 15:21
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DOT 24:11
double -tracked
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dove 12:12
downsides 8:6
drain 24:16
drainage 11:14
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drains 4:17
drug 8:21
dual 13:4
due 13:14
dump 19:5
dumping 15:9
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Dylan's 19:6
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easier 11:4
easiest 4:18
east 4:9,18,20
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EE 26:17
effort 17:5
energy 16:24
engineers 7:22
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entire 2:18 4:9
entity 23:18
environmental
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evaluate 7:5
everybody 25:2
Exactly 10:19
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example 3:25
expenses 3: 9,10
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expensive 21:25
expert 17:9
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explain 4:18
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fairly 23:5
fall 12:1
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familiar 10:12
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fast 6:14
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federal 7:18
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23:22,24
feel 6:17,20
feels 13:21
felt 20:14
fighting 8:2,3
file 6:2 7:12
17:1,2,2 20:15
21:19
filed 3:2,2 5:22
13:16 17:23,24
19:18
final 2:12 7:23
finally 7:25
finance 12:17
financial 12:18
financially
16:16
financials 7:19
financing 14:13
finds 14:12
fine 16:11 18:14
firm 11:21 15:15
fix 11:15
Flescher 1:14
15:11 16:13,16
16:20 18:6,13
Florida 1:1,5,10
2:1124 3:16
7:10,21 8:1,4
11:11 14:12
15:25 16:7
19:1 20:22
21:5 22:16,17
23:11 26:1,9
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
3
flow 4:10
focusing 3:9
folks 7:23 11:5
15:23 17:17
19:17
foot 21:11
footprint 4: 6
foregoing 26:10
forever 9:9
forum 7:15
forward 6:22
7:7 12:17
22:22
four-day 6:11
front 6:4 8:5
17:3
full 16:21
future 13:15
Gallie 11:24
game 14:7
gearing 21:20
George 22:4
getting 3:25
17:13 21:4
24:5
give 3:3 5:20
7:20 22:13
25:8
given 19:10
gives 19:12 21:8
giving 25:17
go 4:2 5:2 9:22
9:25 12:3,17
13:24 16:6
19:11 21:3
24:23 25:1
goals 19:13
goes 5:17 14:13
19:23
going 2:5 3:9
4:11,11,16 6:8
6:13,23 8:8,10
8:10,12,13
9:12 10:7,13
10:14116,16,21
11:15,24,25
13:24 16:1
17:1,6,7 19:6
19:25,25 20:2
20:3,3,4,10,21
21:24 23:8
24:21 25:4
good 8:8 9:8,21
12:24 19:4
21:7 24:10,10
25:1,14,19
gosh 9:8
governing 4:15
GREGORY 26:8
26:17
group 8:18,18
groups 8:16
grove 13:6,7,10
Guard 14:18
guess 14:11
guidance 19:11
guys 10:11
11:18,22 14:3
19:13 20:17
22:19 24:25
H
half 15:4
hand 21:22
handle 17:1
18:3 19:14
handled 15:22
handling 15:20
happen 6:13 7:9
happened 6:5
happens 6:2
hear 5:25
heard 25:9,9
hearing 1:3 6:4
6:11123 8:10
16:5 22:2119
hearings 5:25
6:7,9 22:2,20
hey 17:14 24:24
high 19:3
hold 15:4 18:11
holds 8:9
hoops 13:13
I
idea 15:20 21:7
24:11
impact 13:9
16:21
impacts 6:17
important 20:14
improvements
23:20
in-house 15:20
15:22 16:10
17:1
inclined 12:17
includes 3:12
including 24:9
incomplete 6:20
independent
18:7
Indian 1:1
11:16 26:2
indicate 7:2
information
6:18 9:15
12:18
initial 16:21
initially 6:2
insight 22:13
instance 16:24
20:1 22:16
intent 1:4 2:10
intervene 17:21
involves 17:8
involving 8:23
Island 17:13
issue 1:4 2:6, 10
3:18,22,23
5:12112 7:6,11
7:13,14,23
8:11 11:17
14:18 15:4,5
15:19 16:23,24
17:22 18:214,4
22:16 23:12
issued 2: 10,11
5:13 6:24 9:6
9:13,15,21,24
10:8
issues 5:6 9:14
12:21,23 13:12
14:9,20 15:2
22:21
item 5:24
Jacksonville
4:12
James 1:16
January 6:12
8:10 10:9 16:5
Jason 2:4,16
19:15 25:9
job 16:6 19:4
Johns 1:4 2:8,9
3:22 4:4,11
8:19,22
Joseph 1:14
judge 6:25 8:11
10:9,22 17:3
19:25 20:6
juice 11:21
jurisdiction
3:19,20
just -a -request
22:7
Kate 15:20,21
15:25 16:5
17:6,10 18:23
19:15
Kate's 18:25
keep 18:13
21:11
keeps 23:6
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
4
25:12
key 12:21 13:25
kind 2:17 7:14
11:17 13:5
19:6,11 21:10
22:5,20,23
24:20 25:3
knew 16:25
17:5
know 4:2 7:11
7:17 8:217,9,16
10:11,12,20
11:15 12:2
13:8 14:4,5
15:14 16:4,5
17:9,21,23
18:3 19:19
21:8,9,15,15
21:19 22:5
23:8,9 24:9,11
L
lagoon 4:10
24:13,17
lanes 23:21
large 26:9
late 6:12,12
LAUGHS 12:9
18:10,17
law 6:25
leaving 4:22
left 14:25
legislation 19:2
legitimate 13:17
let's 8:18 20:22
letters 21:19
light 14:5 22:24
23:5
limited 3:7
line 2:20 3:13
3:19 5:3,14
list 22:6
Listen 23:2
lit 7:3
literally 2:19
litigation 3:9, 10
7:6,8,25 8:2
11:20 12:12
18:20
little 5:21 7:18
9:20 14:24
20:5 22:25
23:1,4
localized 11:14
long 18:9
longer 9:20
look 10:4 13:5
15:15 20:21
21:4120 22:17
22:25 23:2,25
24:23 25:13
looked 14:4
looking 6:9
10:10,10 11:23
20:1,6
loose 17:15
losing 18:6
loss 16:4,8
lot 2:14 5:6
15:13 16:2
19:5 21:18
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5:14 8:3 19:16
Lucie/Indian
3:13
M
mad 17:10
management
1:4 2:7,8,9,25
3:16 6:19,19
15:23
Martin 2:22 8:4
14:19 19:17
matter 13:24
25:24
mean 5:12 9:9
12:5,8,21,25
14:16 15:14
17:20 20:25
21:18 22:1
23:23 24:8
meeting 2:16
12:12 25:7
messaging
19:16
mid-August
14:6
mid-December
6:12
mid-January
6:9
million 14:23,24
24:18
mind 5:10
minimal 15:7
17:6,7
missing 23:20
mitigation 4:1
10:18 22:25
23:1
money 11:13
24:23
month 21:3,15
monthly 21:14
months 14:5
18:19 21:11
move 6:22 7:3,7
12:6 15:11
23:12
movement 16:7
moving 10:10
22:22
N
narrow 18:14
necessarily
11:11
necessary 13:14
13:21,22
need 21:14
needed 17:23
negotiate 23:3
24:24
negotiations
3:8
new 5:16
normally 3:6
north 3:23
north/south
5:15
Notary 26:8
note 9:23
notes 26:12
notice 1:4 2:10
2:12 19:18
NOVEMBER
26:13
nuisance 11:10
11:12
O
O'Bryan 1:15
14:11 18:22,25
20:20 21:2,9
21:17 22:23
24:20 25:19,21
October 1:7 2:1
6:13
offer 7:21
officer 6:4
Oh 13:16 16:7
24:2
Okay 4:13,20
5:19,19 11:15
24:24 25:21
old 13:6,7,19
Once 6:24
open 18:20
22:15
opinion 12:5
opportunity 3:3
7:17 25:18
opposed 11:5
12:13 15:17
19:18
opposition
10:14 11:6
order 3:1 6:24
8:11 20:2
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
5
Orlando 20:5
outside 11:20
19:15 20:20
24:22 25:7
page 15:25
24:21
Palatka 20:3
Palm 20:4
part 3:20 7:1
9:16 22:22
23:8 24:217,9
particular 11:14
11:14 23:12
Particularly
18:25
parties 6:7, 10
20:6
pass 12:3
path 3:20 5:6
14:3
paths 13:23,25
14:1
pedal 21:12
Pelican 17:13
people 17:13
perceived 16:4
percent 23:19
period 17:24
permit 1:4 2:10
2:18,21 3:22
5:12113 7:13
7:23 8:9,20
9:5,13,19,24
10:1,2,8,15,22
12:112 14:8,17
14:17
permit's 9:21
permitting 4:16
9:214 10:12
person 25:8
Peter 1:15 18:8
24:4
petition 1:3 6:3
I I 1 0
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13:12 20:15
Phonetic 22:4
picked 24:18
piece 4:9
piled 19:3
pipes 24:16
pit 18:1
plan 14:14
23:19,21
plans 23:14,16
23:16
plate 19:5
play 14:10,21
16:15,18,19,21
please 12:8
plug 21:23
point 11:18
13:23 21:10
Port 4:22
portion 3:12
21:25
positive 7:16
16:6
possible 20:9
possibly 12:17
potential 17:7
pre 9:12,13
preparing 22:2
22:12
preserved 3:3
pressure 23:6
25:12
pretty 10:7 21:7
principles 18:7
prioritize 13:25
priority 14:3
probably 2:14
3:25 7:3 10:15
proceed 3:5,5
proceedings
26:10
process 6:8,24
7:24 8:7,21
9:3,25 10:7,23
12:23 17:8
18:1 22:12
23:9
processes 9:20
project 2:19
7:20 12:20
proposed 6:10
pros 7:5,7 8:5
11:19
prosecute 6:21
11:4
protect 3:1
provided 6:18
public 18:20
23:10 26:8
pull 21:23
punt 16:14
Pushing 11:7
put 21:16 22:6
23:18
puts 22:24 23:5
putting 8:5
question 8:15
8:17 14:11
15:14
quick 2:17 6:8
6:24 8:12 10:7
quicker 7:3
R
railroad 13:3
24:12115,17
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15:18
raised 7:10
13:12 22:22
ramp 9:10 10:25
11:3
ran 2:13
range 15:17,17
reach 17:19
23:10
read 13:15
ready 21:4
24:23
real 6:13
realize 2:14
really 3:9 6:8,15
7:19 11:21
13:20,21 14:9
17:6 21:14
25:9,17
reason 4:8
recognized 24:6
recommended
6:24
record 13:15
26:11
refer 5:25
referred 5:24
6:6 20:25
regards 7:11
8:3
Reingold 1:16
2:3 3:14,17,21
5:11,18,20
7:15 8:23 9:1
9:7111 10:6,19
11:1,8,12
12:10,15 13:11
14:2116 15:2
15:13 16:15,18
16:23 17:19
18:2,11,18
19:10,24 20:9
20:13,24 21:6
22:1,9,14 23:7
23:15,23 24:2
24:7 25:3,6,16
25:22
relates 6:12
relating 3:8
remember
18:11,12 24:11
replaced 11:24
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
6
11:25
report 26: 10
reporter 2:5
18:19 26:17
representatives
7:22
request 6:4
9:14
required 11:13
research 17:22
18:2
resource 1:4 9:5
resources 25:13
respect 2:6
response 17:2
responsible
4:15
review 18:21
reviewed 2:21
2:24 23:17
revisions 2:11
Rich 23:16
ridge 4:9,19,21
4:21,25
right4:5 7:13
16:20 20:1119
23:22 25:22
rights 3:1
River 1:1,4 2:8
2:9,20 3:13
5:14 11:16
26:2
roughly 6:11
ruling 7:1
run 19:21,25
running 17:10
22:18,19
S
S 1:14
save 12:3
saying 11:10
24:4
says 10:22
scale 15:16
t " 0
scheduling 6:7
SEALED 1:6
Sebastian 11:25
second 3:12
section 2:22
see8:9 10:20
15:4 19:3
20:22 21:4123
22:14
SEGMENT 1:5
sense 12:20,22
19:12
separate 2:21
2:23 3:22,22
5:12 10:6
separated 4:7
September 2:13
5:23,23 6:6
session 1:2 3:4
3:7
sessions 3:8
set 10: 23 23:13
23:15,16
setting 10:9
settle 23:11
settlement 3:8
22:15 23:7
24:8,25
settling 22:21
shade 12:12
short 8:6
shorter 8:22
shots 24:13
Shubin 14:4
15:15 22:10
side 9:23 11:3,5
15:23 23:22
sidewalks 23:21
significance
13:7
simply 5:13
19:18
sir 12:15
sit 11:17 22:17
sits 24:16
sitting 15:22
situation 7:4
11:2
six 18:19
slow 12:8
slower 12:6
Solari 1:13
12:14,16,25
13:19 21:24
25:20
somebody
13:21
soon 20:9
sorry 5:23
sort 7:5 19:22
22:10
sorts 5:7
sound 25:1
sounds 19:8
south 2:24 3:15
3:15 8:4
specific 2:6
Specifically 2:18
spend 11:13
15:3 20:21
21:18 24:22
spending 21:15
spent 14:23
spread 8:1
spur 5:16
squeeze 11:22
19:7
SS 26:1
St 1:4 2:8,9,20
2:22 3:13,22
4:4111 5:14
8:3,19,22
19:16
stage 17:22
stand 17:3
standing 17:21
standpoint 8:1
start 10:22 16:9
22:18,19
started 2:12
starting 19:2
state 7:22 24:18
26:1,8
stated 6:23
stenographic
26:12
stenographic...
26:10
step 19:22
stones 16:1
stops 24:8
storm 6:17 7:14
story 15:21
straight 9:20
24:13
strategy 3:8 7:6
Street 1:10 8:20
23:21
strong 12:18
16:14,15
strongest 14:10
14:21
stuff 5:7 22:5
summarize
24:21
summer 24:11
support 12:19
supporting 11:2
sure 3:2
sustained 16:8
swipe 15:9
systems 24:12
tab 24:18
table 11:5 15:23
tactic 8:8
take4:21 12:3
13:24 21:6
takes 24:15
talk 3:4 22:20
talking 2:7 6:11
9:2 17:7110
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
7
19:7
teeny 24:22
tell 20:20 21:13
21:17 24:22
terms 7:7 14:7
14:8 19:11
testimony 17:9
thank 2:3 20:18
25:16
theory 4:10
they'd 17:2
thin 8:2
thing 10:13
20:19 24:5
things 10:20
12:22 13:20
24:1,5
think 8:25 12:4
12:19 13:11,12
13:13,14,16,17
13:20 14:3,6,8
14:9,20 16:1
19:4,4,6,25
21:9 22:24
thinking 15:13
24:14
third 15:3
thought 8:7
13:3 17:6
three 10:17
throwing 16:1
tides 16:8
tied 8:17 24:14
Tim 1:15
time 2:15 16:23
17:5,5 18:9
time -cost 18:4
timeline 2:6
times 10:13
tipping 21:10
today 2:4,7 11:6
14:10
told 8:9
top 13:9 14:2
V
total 14:23
track 24:15
tracks 24:12
traffic 23:21
transcribed
18:12,19
transcript 26:11
trestle 13:3
tried 23:2
true 26:11
try 15:18 25:14
25:14
trying 5:9 9:18
turn 17:15
23:21
turnaround
8:13
turned 16:8
turns 16:3
two 4:7 21:3
type 6:23
types 10:20
U.S 4:19 24:13
24:16,17
Uh-huh 3:17
4:23 5:114,8
understand
14:3 19:13
understanding
13:23
update 14:23
T
valid 13:13
value 12:22
VERO 1:10 2:1
versus 4:11
15:24 18:5
19:23
Vice 1:14 15:11
16:13,16,20
18:6,13
view 12:24
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wait 20:11
waive 7:8
waived 7:12
walking 19:9
want 2:3 9:24
11:17 12:10
13:15 15:3,4
16:11 17:14
19:11 20:7,16
24:5,24
wanted 3:2,4
wants 20:11
watching 5:10
water 1:4 2:7,8
2:9,24 3:16
4:6,17 6:17,18
6:19 7:14
15:23 24:15
way 4:18 8:16
18:3 19:8
22:10 23:6,11
we'd -like -cop...
22:7
we're 2:6 6:8,11
8:4 9:2,17,21
10:9,21 11:15
13:18 19:8,9
20:1,21,25
21:4,9,15,20
23:3 24:21,21
24:23 25:3
we've 13:12
14:23,25 17:22
20:5,25 22:21
23:15,17
weakened 16:17
weaker 16:18
16:18
weeds 12:11
weeks 8:12 19:2
went 23:22,24
Wesley 1:14
west4:21 5:2
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wetland 4:6
23:4 24:25
wetlands 6:16
10:17
wetlands' 5:6
7:13
win 11:10 17:7
window 7:21
22:15
winning 19:8
wish 19:7
withdraw 19:19
withdrawing
19:23
witnesses 17:8
won 10:25
wonderful 10:21
word 19:8
work 9:19 15:24
19:16 20:6
22:10 25:14
working 6:7
9:18 20:1
world 16:7
worried 13:8
worth 11:21,21
19:7
X
ya'll 17:14 19:11
yeah 5:19 11:1
12:10 14:16
15:10,12 17:16
17:18,20 18:15
18:24 19:20
21:17 22:1,3
23:16 25:5,9
year 8:14
years 8:21
10:23 12:7
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231
8
Z
Zeekie 22:4
zero 10:22
Zorc 1:15 3:11
3:15,18 4:2,5
4:13,20,24 5:2
5:5,9,16,19
8:15,25 10:3
11:23 12:6
15:8 17:15,17
18:5 19:21
20:7,10 21:7
21:13,21 22:6
22:11 23:13,18
23:25 24:4,10
n
1
14:19 24:13,16
24:17
1.9 14:23
10 -year 23:20
10,000 15:11
10:30 1:7
10:311:7
100- 15:16
11:04 25:23
11:10 1:8
11:111:8
135214-2 1:5
13th 2:16
150- 15:17
16 5:23
16th 2:13 5:22
5:23
181:7 2:1
18011:10
18th 6:13
2 24:18
2.7 14:24
20161:7 2:1
26:13
21 -day 2:12
17:24
24th 2:11
25- 21:18
25,000 20:21
25:5
250- 6:22 11:20
15:17
26th 2:12
27TH 1:10
3
300-11:20
15:17
300,000 6:22
30th 5:23 6:6
329601:10
4
45th 8:20 23:21
5
528 3:19 4:22
6
---
7
7TH 26:13
8
8/6/2019 26:18
800,00014:25
9
90 7:1,4 23:19
907742 26:17
VERO BEACH COURT REPORTERS
772-231-2231