HomeMy WebLinkAbout02/19/2007MINUl'ES ATTACHED
MONDAY, FEBRUARY 19, 2007
2:00 P.M.
JOINT WORKSHOP AGENDA
INDIAN RIVER COUNTY / ST LUCIE COUNTY
BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
THE RICHARDSON CENTER
INDIAN RIVER COMMUNITY COLLEGE
6155 COLLEGE LANE
VERO BEACH, FLORIDA
CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Indian River County Board of County Commission Chairman, Gary C. Wheeler
2. INVOCATION
Indian River County Public Works Director, Jim Davis
3. OPENING REMARKS AND INTRODUCTIONS
A.
Indian River County Board of County Commissioners and Staff
By Chairman Gary C. Wheeler
B• St Lucie County Board of County Commissioners and Staff
By Chairman Chris Craft
4. ADAMS RANCH AND CLOUD GROVE
A. Presentation of Rural Lands Stewardship by Florida Conservancy &
Development Group, LLC and Family Lands Remembered, Glatting Jackson,
CH2M
B. Traffic
C. Water
D. Special Assessment - Stewardship District
February 19, 2007 — Joint Workshop Page 1 of 2
5. PRESENTATION — ENVIRONMENTAL RESTORATION & WATER SUPPLY
A. Bob Ylevich, St. Johns Water Control District and Sebastian River Water
Control District
6. INDRIO GROVES
A. Presentation of Indrio Groves Land Trust by Lennar Homes, LLC
B. 58t}' Avenue/Koblegard Road Connection
7. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM BOARD MEMBERS
8. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC
9 ADJOURNMENT
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February 19, 2007 — Joint Workshops
Page 2 of 2
INDEX TO MINUTES OF JOINT WORKSHOP WITH
INDIAN RIVER COUNTY AND ST. LUCIE COUNTY
REGARDING ADAMS RANCH AND CLOUD GROVE
PROPERTIES
HELD FEBRUARY 19, 2007
1. CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.,
2. INVOCATION
3. OPENING REMARKS AND INTRODUCTIONS
A. INDIAN RIVER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND
CHAIRMAN GARY C. WHEELER
B. ST. LUCIE COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF BY
CHAIRMAN CHRIS CRAFT
1
1
2
STAFF BY
2
2
2
4. ADAMS RANCH AND CLOUD GROVE
A. PRESENTATION OF RURAL LANDS STEWARDSHIP BY FLORIDA CONSERVANCY
& DEVELOPMENT GROUP, LLC AND FAMILY LANDS REMEMBERED,
GLATTING JACKSON, CH2M 2
B. TRAFFIC 5
C. WATER
D. SPECIAL ASSESSMENT - STEWARDSHIP DISTRICT 7
February 19, 2007 1
Joint Workshop/St. Lucie
e
5. PRESENTATION - ENVIRONMENTAL RESTORATION &
WATER SUPPLY
A. BOB ULEVICH, ST. JOHNS WATER CONTROL DISTRICT AND SE44STIANRIVER
WATER CONTROL DISTRICT
6. INDRIO GROVES
A. PRESENTATION OF INDRIO GROVES LAND TRUST BYLENNAR H
B. 58TH AVENUE/KOBLEGARD ROAD CONNECTION
16
16
20
ES, LLC 20
20
BERS 20
7. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM BOARD ME
8. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC 20
9. ADJOURNMENT 21
February 19, 2007 2
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
WI'
February 19, 2007
JOINT WORKSHOP OF THE INDIAN RIVER COUNTY
AND THE ST. LUCIE COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY
COMMISSIONERS REGARDING ADAMS RANCH
AND CLOUD GROVE PROPERTIES
The Board of County Commissioners of Indian River County, Florida, met in a Joint
Workshop at the Richardson Center, Indian River Community College, 6155 College Lane, Vero
Beach, Florida, on Monday, February 19, 2007 to discuss matters pertaining to Adams Ranch
and Cloud Grove properties. Present for Indian River County were Chairman Gary C. Wheeler,
Vice Chair Sandra L Bowden, Commissioners Wesley S. Davis, Joseph E Flescher and Peter D.
O'Bryan. Also present were County Administrator Joseph A. Baird, County Attorney William
G. Collins II, and Deputy Clerk Athena Adams.
Present for St Lucie County were Chairman Chris Craft, Commissioners D
Charles Grande, and Paula Lewis (Commissioner Joseph E Smith was absent).
ug Coward,
1. CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Chairman, Gary C. Wheeler, called the meeting to order at 2:00 p.m., and led the Pledge
of Allegiance to the Flag.
2. INVOCATION
Indian River County Public Works Director, Jim Davis, delivered the Invoc
February 19, 2007 1
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
tion.
3. OPENING REMARKS AND INTRODUCTIONS
A. INDIAN RIVER COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND
STAFF BY CHAIRMAN GARY C. WHEELER
Chairman Wheeler introduced Indian River County Board of County Commissioners and
staff. Also present were Assistant County Administrator Mike Zito, Transportation Engineer
Chris Mora, Utilities Director Erik Olson, Public Works Director Jim Davis, and other staff
members.
B. ST. LUCIE COUNTY BOARD OF COUNTY COMMISSIONERS AND STAFF
BY CHAIRMAN CHRIS CRAFT
Chairman Chris Craft introduced Commissioners and staff from St Lucie County. Also
present were County Administrator Douglas M. Anderson, County Attorney Daniel McIntyre,
Assistant County Administrator Faye Outlaw and Recording Secretary Millie Feliciano.
4. ADAMS RANCH AND CLOUD GROVE
A. PRESENTATION OF RURAL LANDS STEWARDSHIP BY FLORIDA
CONSERVANCY & DE VEL OPMENT GROUP, LLC AND FAMILY LANDS
REMEMBERED, GLATTING JACKSON, CH2M
Ernie Cox, President of Family Lands Remembered, LLC thanked Commissioners and
staff for the opportunity to talk about various portions of the Rural Lands Stewardship program
that has been adopted by St Lucie County relating to Adams Ranch and Cloud Grove. He
February 19, 2007 2
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
announced that on March 22, 2007 they would be having a public workshop with nore detailed
information on both the Stewardship Sending Area (on the 12,000 acres of Adams Ranch) and
the Stewardship Receiving Area (for the 5,000 acres on Cloud Grove). The workshop will be
held in the evening at Lakewood Park Elementary and he invited everyone to attend. The
Workshop today is more informational because both applications (the Stewardship Sending &
Receiving Areas) have not yet been submitted. He then introduced the first speake
Angelos.
, Cynthia
Cynthia Angelos, Florida Conservancy and Development Group, appreciated the
opportunity to present the Cloud Grove proposal. She disclosed that Florida Conservancy was
seeking a special assessment district to create a single financing mechanism for the infrastructure
on Cloud Grove. She informed both Commissions that at this puncture they have withdrawn the
Indian River County portion from the application (about 1400 acres) and are proceeding with the
St. Lucie County portion.
Ernie Cox, through a PowerPoint Presentation, talked about Rural Land Stewardship
Legislation established by the Florida Legislature in 2001 (Legislation Ch. 163,3177 F.S.) and is
a preferred planning alternative for rural lands in Florida. He outlined key Legislative changes
since inception, which include: (A) reducing the minimum size to 10,000 acres to encourage
pilot programs; and (B) an owner can initiate a Stewardship Planning process. He informed
Commissioners that there was an allowance in the Statutes for multi -county Stewardship plans,
and rural land stewardship for Cloud Grove and Adams Ranch only apply to the St Lucie
County portion. Further, there was a DRI exemption but at the request of St. Lucie County they
agreed, and it was adopted, that if a project reached the DRI threshold even though it has a
statutory exemption, it would go through the full DRI process and Cloud Grove is doing that.
February 19, 2007 3
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
Mr. Cox stated that in 2004, in recognition of the value of agriculture to the State of
Florida, the Legislature added a provision, which states that agriculture can generate credits in
addition to natural resources and that has been incorporated in the St. Lucie Program.
The area that has been adopted in St Lucie County (those 22,000 acres) is a long-term
build out scenario, not 10 or 15 years, he remarked. He displayed the "Pilot Program" location
explaining that the reason it is a pilot program is because it does not include all of the rural lands
in St Lucie County. He discussed the Adams Ranch Stewardship goals, which are to protect
and conserve agricultural lands and promote agricultural viability, to direct incompatible uses
away from wetlands and habitats, and to discourage urban sprawl by doing mixed-use
development and creative land use planning.
Mr. Cox discussed the different connected eco -systems on the property, and the RLSA
Overlays where the idea is instead of looking to transfer development rights one would establish
a program to value the resources on the ground. He talked about generation of credits by
eliminating uses, outlining that the way the stewardship program works is that the more valuable
the land environmentally, the more credits per acre it generates, and the more uses eliminated
from that land the more credits it generate. He displayed an aerial view map showing the entire
area/acreage of Adams Ranch explaining uses and exclusion of certain areas.
Mr. Cox announced that they would be submitting an application (Steward Sending
Area) that will include the exact boundaries of about 12,000 acres and their goal is to create
35,000 credits from those areas to transfer to Cloud Grove. He concluded, discussing the
Stewardship Approval Process and its current status. The Comprehensive Plan amendment has
been completed and the Department of Community Affairs (DCA) has found the amendments to
be in compliance, he stated. Also the Land Development Code has been adopted but they have
not yet submitted the SSA (Steward Sending Areas) and SRA (Stewardship Receiving Areas)
February 19, 2007 4
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
applications, and those would be in March before staff review and the public works
turned the presentation over to Tim Jackson.
B. TRAFFIC
op. He then
Tim Jackson, Principal Town Planner of Glatting Jackson, outlined (throu h an aerial
view site map) the area in St. Lucie County that is proposed for development and t e land in
Indian River County, which is not proposed for development but for a roadway connection from
Cloud Grove to Oslo Road. He also outlined the Master Plan's guiding principles (adopted by
the St Lucie County Commission and found in Comp Plan and LDRs), for this new community,
which he described as a great departure from what they have built in this State over the last 40
years. He explained that the Master Plan has a mixed-use Town Center, which includes all series
of neighborhoods
Mr. Jackson discussed context zones guide locations and intensity which include the
Town Core (the highest density within the new community), Town Center (locations where all
daily goods and services would be provided), Neighborhood General (a mix of resi
homes prices and sizes) Neighborhood Edge (larger single family homes, fewer h
ential
mes and
larger lots), and Special Districts (for civic uses like community parks and utility sites and
employment uses). He displayed a map of the proposed development pointing out the Town
center anchored to the south by a reservoir, (the north end being community park) and rich multi-
use main streets that connects the two. He also discussed the road system presenting a hierarchy
or roads and key connections that would allow and provide for future connections and future
transit stops. He also looked at pedestnan/bike systems (a potential regional corridor and
hierarchy of paths), open space system which includes reservoir, flow ways, neighborhood and
community parks, civic uses, neighborhood parks and provided a range of housing by home
February 19, 2007 5
Joint Workshop/St. Lucie
types, home site sizes, and a variety of lifestyle choices from town to more rural larger home
sites.
Mr. Jackson disclosed that there was a commitment that 8% of the homes would be
affordable for workforce housing on-site. He concluded by outlining the key steps of the process
as follows: (1) the comp plan policies and LDRs have been adopted for the RLSA; (2) the Pilot
Program for Adams Ranch and Cloud Grove have been adopted; (3) the Adams Ranch SSA
application is being readied for submittal; (4) the Cloud Grove DRI which includes the master
plan is going through the review process; and (5) there is a Cloud Grove SRA application that
will follow shortly.
He discussed briefly the proposed transportation connection network, timing of access,
and the transportation mitigation process, stating that the DO will identify needed transportation
improvements by phase. Those improvements would need to be in place or fully funded before
the project can move into its next phase, and Cloud Grove will coordinate with transportation
agencies throughout build -out timeframe, he remarked.
C. WATER
Fred Roth with Michael B. Schorah & Associates gave a brief overview of
environmental benefits relative to surface water/water use and drainage. The current practice of
agricultural discharge to canals that lead eventually to the Indian River lagoon will be eliminated
over time as Cloud Grove is developed, he stated. They are looking at the overall water use and
discharge instead of just peak discharge, and the system is being designed in such a manner that
they would be able to reduce the total volume of water that comes off the site on an annual basis
Further, in the water use areas, the current agricultural operation uses primarily surface water,
February 19, 2007 6
Joint Workshop/St Lucie a
which is drawn out of the C-25 canal and used for irrigation throughout the Grove area. Also,
the proposed system to be installed (the potable water) would use water supply wells from the
Floridan Aquifer and would no longer use surface water for any of the potable wate aspects. He
informed that the majority of our irrigation would come from reuse water and that r use would
be the treated sewage that comes off the site.
D. SPECIAL ASSESSMENT - STEWARDSHIP DISTRICT
Tim Jackson provided background on the two other environmental features on the site.
First, the "Cabbage Palm Hammock" (about 11 acres), is one of the only remnant patches of
native habitat that exist in this whole region and is proposed to be protected and to he managed
so that people can appreciate and recognize it as a passive recreational site. The second site is
the reservoir, which is about 640 acres and currently exists as an above ground man4made
reservoir. In the master plan the reservoir would be restored into several types of wetland
systems and that restoration is primarily focused on providing habitat for the Snail Kite Also,
that reservoir would be part of the integrated stormwater management system, he stated.
Ernie Cox summarized the presentation expressing his pleasure of working bn this
project. He thanked staff of both counties especially St. Lucie County. He felt there was still a
lot more work to be done and urged everyone to ask questions today.
Chairman Wheeler invited questions from Board members and staff, then public
comments.
Vice Chairman Bowden inquired of the schedule for changes to Minute Maid Road
extension to Orange Avenue.
February 19, 2007 7
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
Mr. Cox explained the plans for that road informing that all the modeling that has been
done was with the assumption that Minute Maid Road stays a dirt road, and it is a private
easement, not a county right-of-way. They have however designed and worked on the traffic so
that Minute Maid Road is only a Turnpike interchange and the people who use the dirt road
would be able to access the interchange but they were not planning to widen, improve or use that
as an access.
Commissioner O'Bryan asked what was the current number of units that could be put on
the Cloud Grove site under its existing zoning and land use.
Mr. Cox answered 1 unit per 5 acres and the total that could be done without stewardship
would be 4,464 units. Further, the adopted St. Lucie Comprehensive Plan has an "absolute
limitation" on the number of homes that can be built in the whole 22,000 acres and the total
number of homes that could be built in the entire area would be 13,428 and 12,000 of those
homes would go in the mixed use town of Cloud Grove.
Commissioner O'Bryan further questioned the 12 000 proposed units of Cloud Grove
asking how many wells they anticipated drilling to provide water for those units.
Mr. Cox was not sure, but they were in the process of working out a modeling protocol
with St. Lucie County Utilities to determine how many wells are needed and where they should
go. Regarding Indian River County, the Law requires that they could not interfere with any other
user with that system including other utility providers and agricultural operations, he stated.
Commissioner O'Bryan asked how many million gallons of water 12,000 units would be
expected to use per day.
February 19, 2007 8
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
Tom Holdeck with CH2M believed that at build -out (for the 12,000 units, all the
commercial and all facilities) it would be about 3.83 million gallons per day on an annual
average basis.
Commissioner O'Bryan compared this layout to Celebrations in Kissimmee and referred
to the special assessment district that wanted to pay for the infrastructure. He asked. whether it
would lead to special assessment for providing Police and other City type services.
Mr. Cox explained that the assessment district would be able to do that, St 'Lucie County
has a separate Fire Control District, and they would be working with the Fire Control District in
terms of timing and phasing of facilities. He remarked that the basic idea of the spacial
assessment district is that the properties within the project pay for the infrastructure
having existing St. Lucie County taxpayers pay for these facilities.
Commissioner O'Bryan wondered (with the proposed infrastructure) how p
get to the beach and how Indrio Road would handle all that traffic.
rather than
ople would
Mr. Cox said one of the things they have been trying to do is to capture as many of those
daily trips as they possibly could. They were also trying to minimize the number of external
trips, and trying to determine if there was a way to get people into a trolley or transit system.
Commissioner Doug Coward wanted to give a more direct answer to Commissioner
O'Bryan's question regarding entitlements of the affected parcels. He said when Mir. Cox
answered the question about Adams Ranch he used the entirety of the property to identify 4,464
entitlements, and in fairness to what is going on they are talking about Sending Areas and not on
the entirety of the Ranch. Further, it is only on about 12,000 acres, so the entitlements are only
about 2400 units and that was one of his major objections. He believed there are loth of good
February 19, 2007 9
Joint Workshop/St. Lucie
aspects to this project but felt they were creating "way too much" additional development outside
the urban service area.
Commissioner O'Bryan appreciated the clarification and shared Commissioner Coward's
concerns.
Commissioner Coward continued by discussing the road system and could not
comprehend how they would have a new town (five miles west of the Urban Service boundary)
with one road (through the first 12 years) and potentially a connection to the south to the
Turnpike and then a third connection to the north on Oslo Road. He asked what would happen if
Indian River County chooses not to approve that connection.
Commissioner Davis felt the question was what would happen if someone owns the
property from St Lucie County line to Oslo Road. He asked Indian River County Attorney
William Collins what could we do to stop that road.
Attorney Collins was not sure they could stop a road from being built up to Oslo because
it is on private property, and there has to be some permitting authority.
Chairman Wheeler asked if we would be required to allow them to connect to our road.
Attorney Collins said, "No."
Commissioner/Chairman Chris Craft remarked that they went through extensive
discussions of this project to make sure it was fiscally neutral for St Lucie County and any
impacts it may have on Indian River County. So, any potential impacts Indian River County
may have would also have to be borne by the applicant.
February 19, 2007 10
Joint Workshop/St Lucie aa
Commissioner Coward thought, between the two elected Boards, they have the ability
to address infrastructure that is of concern to one or both Commissions. He wanted to know
Indian River County's position as it relates to the infrastructure that has been proposed in its
community, as it was not just an issue of fiscal neutrality but would have effect on our
development patterns and taxpayers as well.
Mr. Cox agreed, stating that to date they have met with the Indian River County
transportation staff, St Lucie County transportation staff, the Regional Planning Cauncil (RPC)
and the Department of Transportation staff and they are in the regional review process with RPC.
Chairman Wheeler expressed concerns of Indian River County. It seemed td him that we
are "kind of sandwiched between two counties" (St. Lucie to the south and Brevard to the north)
that have a different philosophy on growth than Indian River County does. Also, "I{ is almost
like we are becoming like a borrowing area for water, dirt, traffic and in this case traffic coming
up and using our commercial facilities," he remarked. He would have to look at this in depth and
was not excited about the road coming up. He questioned comments about transferring 35,000
credits, and asked how did they define those credits if they were not units.
Mr. Cox explained that the stewardship program is not a TDR program whee you take
the existing density on the property and transfer that density. It is an incentive based program
that is designed to create stewardship credits based upon the natural resources or other intrinsic
value of the land. He stated that the natural resources (agricultural and cultural resources) of the
property will create credits and credits will be based on values of the land.
Commissioner Bowden asked who determined value of this particular land. Mr. Cox
said they contracted two (2) Environmental Consulting Firms, Wilson Miller and E W
Consultants who spent months on both properties valuing the different resources.
February 19, 2007 11
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
Commissioner/Chairman Chris Craft liked Indian River County's interest in the
program but thought they should stay on topic as to how this relates to Indian River County, how
this would impact Indian River County, whether we want those impacts the way it is being
proposed by this applicant or not, and is this an impact that we are willing to accept.
Chairman Wheeler asked how many units could be gotten out of 35,000 credits or how
many credits equal a unit.
Mr. Cox explained that there are 35,000 credits (that would relate to a 5,000 acre town)
and there are a minimum number of residential units within that town which is 10,000 and a
maximum within that town of 12,500 (each acre could be 2 — 2 1/2 on a gross basis), so you have
35,000 credits that relates to between 10,000 and 12,500 homes and it includes the commercial
and industrial.
Chairman Wheeler discussed property with more or less density and the transfer of units.
He believed the "village" concept is good but had concerns on which comes first, the residential
or the commercial, believing that residential has to be first established as a customer base before
going in and setting up commercial.
Mr. Cox said one of the things they were working on (with retail and transportation
people) is how they could phase in bits and pieces of those daily needs over time. He provided
examples of towns that have been reasonably successful (like the Villages in Sumter County).
Commissioner Davis had tremendous concern mainly for the agricultural industry with
the thought of having wells drilled south of our County where we were not allowed to drill in the
first place.
February 19, 2007 12
Joint Workshop/St Lucie a
Mr. Cox was trying to get with the water management districts, and utility departments
of both Counties to try and understand how this whole system fits.
Discussion ensued regarding looking to the Aquifer vs. surface water and the best place
to get water for consumption.
Commissioner Coward spoke on the road issue connecting to the north. He thought if a
Development Order or DRI were to come before St Lucie County they have the authority to
approve or disapprove that plan. Also, if they knew that their neighbor to the north disapproves
of a mayor road connection to the north through Indian River County they have the ability to
modify the plan. He felt they have control over the situation and they should take it very
seriously because not only do they have to think about this project but also all the rdads
connecting to this project that are going to create an impetus for more urban sprawl in this area.
He also believed the surrounding roadways are a critical issue and wanted to stay di$'ectly
involved with the Indian River County Commission about their views on that roadway.
Chairman Wheeler agreed and appreciated his comments and willingness to work with
us.
Public Comments
Frank DeSena, President of Spanish Lakes Fairways Homeowners Association, off
Indrio Road, felt there would be tremendous impact on his community. He believed this is
"another huge development that we do not need" and was concerned about water restrictions in
his community and the use of 3.83 million gallons of water per day by the new development. He
was also concerned about traffic impact, depletion of the Aquifer, and who would oversee and
protect his community's interests.
February 19, 2007 13
Joint Workshop/St. Lucie
Commissioner/Chairman Chris Craft responded that his staff and the Board would
monitor the process through its stages and it was their goal to have as little negative impact as
possible, preferably none, and that is why they have language in the ordinance ("fiscally
neutral") to avoid any community or taxpayer supplementing any part of that development.
Tom Cowan, President of Flying Ranches, also expressed concern from his community.
They believe it is a major mistake to allow a development of this size to go into a major
agricultural zoned area. They were also concerned about the water and the intended
consumption per day among other things. He urged reconsideration of this project.
Doug Bournique, Indian River Citrus League announced that Rural Land Stewardship
(RLS) are recommendations of the Committee for a Sustainable Treasure Coast, which they
endorse, and it was the work of a lot of people looking at options for this region. He believed
they needed to have options and give value to the people who live here. He saw this as a great
project that should go forward.
Bo Griffin, Florida Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services (FDACS)
commented that in light of continued urbanization of Florida's environmentally sensitive areas
and the need to maintain economic viability of the agricultural industry, the FDACS strongly
supports the Rural Land Stewardship program and are willing to be co -holders of a perpetual
easement. He stated that such an easement should help keep agriculture viable for years while
also maintaining areas for wildlife and surface and ground water recharge in perpetuity.
Joseph Paladin, Chairman of the Growth Awareness Committee (a private sector
organization), resident and Developer of Indian River County, posed several questions to St.
Lucie County Commissioners as follow: (1) has St. Lucie County adopted Senate Bill 360
(SB360); and (2) what was the level of service they have on US 1 at this time. To the former
February 19, 2007 14
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
alms
question he was told, "Yes" and to the latter he did not get a specific answer. Mr. Paladin
wanted to compare and figure out how a project like this would work in our County'.
Michael Minton, of the Law Firm Dean Meade Minton & Zwemer, whose Firm works
for the Adams family, discussed other community activities they are involved in, like the
Sustainable Treasure Coast and the Natural Resources of the Rural Land Stewardship Program
where they looked for opportunities to preserve significant connected acreage that provided a
diverse array of natural resources. They also they tried to find things that transcendled the
political boundaries and things that would affect all of their communities. Further, their
Sustainable Treasure Coast report had identified a number of other tools (where you can create
other currencies as a way of preserving lands) to help find other options. He urged both
Commissions to work together on this to see if they could get something positive to happen
between the two water control districts as it relates to the water in this area.
Commissioner/Chairman Chris Craft talked about rural zoning in Indian liver County
that they do not have in St Lucie County, about density, and their support for the project
ordinance.
Commissioner Coward who also worked with the Sustainable Treasure Coast on the
RLS program was supportive of the concept but was cautious about creating so much new
currency and proceeding with this program particularly if there is a currency enhancement or
bonus of nearly 500%. He thought this was more of a development tool than a conservation tool.
Chairman Wheeler announced that Indian River County was in the process of eliminating
the "new town" or "village" concept outside the urban service area.
Charles Grande heard talk about "fiscal neutrality" and since becoming a Commissioner
has looked very carefully at their proposal. He suggested they look at fiscal neutrality very
February 19, 2007 15
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
carefully at this point in time. He commented that (like most large scale development projects to
date) the applicants have brought forth several suggested methodologies for circumventing /
property valuing the real estate in this project and the unavoidable consequence of spreading cost
over the rest of the county. Further, fiscal neutrality "is definitely our goal for this" and they
would be looking very closely at the underlying funding methodologies.
Chairman Wheeler called a break at 3.54 p. m. and resumed at 4:09 p.m.
5. PRESENTATION — ENVIRONMENTAL RESTORATION &
WATER SUPPLY
A. BOB ULEVICH, ST. JOHNS WATER CONTROL DISTRICT AND
SEBASTIAN RIVER WATER CONTROL DISTRICT
Mr. Bob Ulevich gave an overview and a brief history of the reconnection of the two (2) water
management districts as well as its congressional creation and authorization (1947-56), and the
1973-74 State creation of the five (5) Water Management Districts.
Mr. Ulevich displayed what he described as a very historic map showing the Central and
South Florida flood control project map as authorized by Congress years ago. He talked about a
preliminary engineering report that was part of a "design memorandum" that was printed in
1956. Said document talked about the St. Lucie area, ground water recharge, and the St. Johns
marsh lying south of SR 60. The report also talked about a fourth reservoir, water banking
(storage and need of excess water), connections to the C-25 and C-24 canals, the Indian River
County St. Lucie County reservoir and the drainage districts that it ties into, as well as the
primary purpose of the Indian River St Lucie Reservoir water conservation.
February 19, 2007 16
Joint Workshop/St Lucie a
Mr. Ulevich gave a sense of where we are, pointing out the C-25 extension area (on map)
versus the S-98 (the twin to the S-91 structure) stating that the purpose was to contiol the
reservoir talked about. He also discussed re -connection goals of the two districts, which are to
reduce fresh water and stormwater discharges into Indian River Lagoon, improve capability to
move water north -south rather than east to the Lagoon, reduce the nutrient loads into the Indian
River systems estuary, destabilize salinity regimes, improve surface water storage, and get
positive ground water recharge. He also addressed concerns regarding the 1400 acres in Indian
River County (area displayed on map) and recalled talking about turning it into a re$ervoir
instead of developing it. He described it as "an old idea that's being renewed."
Mr. Ulevich recapped his presentation which mainly looked at "some of the things our
forefathers did in the environmental and engineering community" and applying it to today's
needs to address future loadings in the lagoon, to address positive ground water recharge, and to
address surface water as an alternative water source.
Commissioner Davis recalled when this all started. They had workshops with St. Johns
Water Management District out of Palatka and talked about a land swap, doing comprehensive
plan changes, and building a 10,000 -acre reservoir in the northern part of Indian River County,
and the reservoir being immediately adjacent to future annexation plans of the City of Palm Bay.
Commissioner Davis was concerned with what the future plans would be. He felt the
point was there are canals that are used to drain from the St Lucie County area directly into the
Lagoon and this gives us the opportunity to do one of two things, either (A) pull that water back
up and store it for our own consumptive purposes, or (B) pull that water back up and have it filter
the way mother nature intended it to filter, which is to the north through the St. Johns River all
the way to Jacksonville and to the south and have it properly filtered and flow through the Lake
Okeechobee system.
February 19, 2007 17
Joint Workshop/St. Lucie
Mr. Ulevich talked to area residents and they had no problem with the proposed project.
Discussion ensued regarding size/acreage of reservoir and how much water it would hold,
as well as its uses.
Commissioner O'Bryan appreciated Mr Ulevich's efforts and thought getting more
storage and surface water was a good goal but questioned "the trying to stop all fresh water run-
off into the Lagoon." He argued that historically Indian River Lagoon was primarily fresh water
and felt the Lagoon needs a large quantity of fresh water and we needed to distinguish between
freshwater and stormwater impacts to the Lagoon.
Mr. Ulevich agreed and felt there has to be fresh water to bring stabilization up.
Steven Cauffman, a representative of the Florida Conservancy & Development Group
(FCDG), thanked Mr Ulevich for making the presentation, and Commissioner Davis who has
been "the impetus behind this concept." He stated for the record that this "seems like it really
could be a win/win for both counties, the water control district and for the developers of Cloud
Grove." Also, FCDG would be interested in continuing discussions and investigating the
possibility of a sale of all or a portion of the Indian River property whether to the County, or a
combination of the water control district of St. Johns or wherever the funds could come from.
Commissioner/Chairman Craft asked Mr Cauffmann if the Group had looked at the
idea of using the surface water from the reservoir that is on site currently for potable water.
Mr. Cauffmann deferred the question to someone with more expertise, but he
understood from looking at the numbers, the amount of water that the Town of Cloud Grove
would consume at full build -out was roughly 25% of the amount of water that the current
agricultural operations is permitted to use today, so we would use much less. Also, the amount
February 19, 2007 18
Joint Workshop/St. Lucie a
of irrigation water, new water that we would be pulling out, is about an eighth (1/8). Regarding
the question of using the reservoir for potable water, his understanding was that South Florida
Water Management District's recommendation was that it comes from Floridan Aquifer.
Tom Holdeck said, "No," they had not looked at using the existing reservoir for potable
water. However, the Surficial and Floridan Aquifers were preliminary looked at and the Floridan
Aquifer was the best source for potable water at this stage.
Commissioner O'Bryan asked, "How many acres/feet can you get if you go up with a
berm or go down, what is the depth?"
Mr. Ulevich said they would have to do a combination of reservoirs and stormwater
treatment areas, and in the old days they did not like things deeper than 4 feet (or 4-6 feet) and
they realized how expensive land was, so now they are looking at 10-12 feet.
Commissioner Grande sought to clarify his understanding of Mr. Ulevich'S comments
that they were "seriously considering the concept of using Indian River County's portion or
selling it in effect and having it become part of a much improved water system, and iat the end of
the day what we would wind up with is a 30,000 person city, which for visualization is about 3/4
of the size of the City of Fort Pierce, working on a dirt road to the south and Indrio toad east and
west, and nothing else."
Mr. Cauffmann clarified that they are interested in discussing the sale of the property
but in all the discussions they have had they have talked about maintaining a corridor where they
could still build the Oslo Road connector.
Commissioner Grande said it was good thinking.
•
February 19, 2007 19
Joint Workshop/St Lucie
6. INDRIO GROVES
A. PRESENTATION OF INDRIO GROVES LAND TR UST BY LENNAR HOMES,
LLC
B. 58TH A VENUE/KOBLEGARD ROAD CONNECTION
Chairman Wheeler announced that Item 6 was pulled from the Agenda.
7. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM BOARD MEMBERS
There were no further discussions.
8. QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC
There were no further discussions and Chairman Wheeler thanked St. Lucie County
Board members and staff for meeting with us.
February 19, 2007 20
Joint Workshop/St Lucie ,,,..
9. ADJOURNMENT
There being no further business the Chairman adjourned the Workshop at 4;46 p.m.
ATTEST:
Jeffrei'1 arton, Clerk Garyheeler, Chairman
Minutes Approved: APR 0 3 2007
BCC/Adams Ranch/Cloud Grove Joint Workshop/St. Lucie/AA/2007Minutes
February 19, 2007 21
Joint Workshop/St Lucie